okay Kelly
@kmdoublev.bsky.social
philosophy // parenting // pacific northwest
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the people fear it
November 11, 2025 at 5:09 AM
the people fear it
You and friendo have a lot of children's tears to answer for.
November 11, 2025 at 12:46 AM
You and friendo have a lot of children's tears to answer for.
Okay maybe one more thing: I don't think it's at all less rigorous to use double and single quotes in different ways. In fact, it allows us to apply our fiddly standards about mentioning in one way with ' ' and quote words (a normal thing people do) with "".
November 10, 2025 at 7:15 PM
Okay maybe one more thing: I don't think it's at all less rigorous to use double and single quotes in different ways. In fact, it allows us to apply our fiddly standards about mentioning in one way with ' ' and quote words (a normal thing people do) with "".
I shd stop b/c at this point I'm just annoying myself, but anyway all this is why I find generics like "punctuation goes outside" unhelpful. It excludes a lot of cases, both b/c imo single vs. double quotes are for different purposes and b/c I wasn't implicitly restricting to quoting written text.
November 10, 2025 at 7:14 PM
I shd stop b/c at this point I'm just annoying myself, but anyway all this is why I find generics like "punctuation goes outside" unhelpful. It excludes a lot of cases, both b/c imo single vs. double quotes are for different purposes and b/c I wasn't implicitly restricting to quoting written text.
So maybe I wouldn't think of it as imposing my own standard as much as using the house style. (But, again, I don't consider the punctuation to be directly quoted in the way the words are in all cases. It depends on a lot.) +
November 10, 2025 at 7:14 PM
So maybe I wouldn't think of it as imposing my own standard as much as using the house style. (But, again, I don't consider the punctuation to be directly quoted in the way the words are in all cases. It depends on a lot.) +
What wd you do if you're ""-quoting someone who disagree with you about the Oxford comma (from audible speech)? (Basically, I think it's important that in quoting from audible speech we're exactly reproducing the words and using the punctuation those words wd require under our own standards.)
November 10, 2025 at 6:50 PM
What wd you do if you're ""-quoting someone who disagree with you about the Oxford comma (from audible speech)? (Basically, I think it's important that in quoting from audible speech we're exactly reproducing the words and using the punctuation those words wd require under our own standards.)
But also: do you think it's misleading if I write _He said, "It's cold."_ in a case where he said more stuff? (Not b/c of conversational implicature but b/c of punctuation.)
November 10, 2025 at 6:39 PM
But also: do you think it's misleading if I write _He said, "It's cold."_ in a case where he said more stuff? (Not b/c of conversational implicature but b/c of punctuation.)
Do you distinguish between single quotes and double quotes?
November 10, 2025 at 6:38 PM
Do you distinguish between single quotes and double quotes?
I believe it's nonstandard to include the second period here. The inside one serves for both when it's the ultimate (clause-ending) punctuation.
November 10, 2025 at 6:37 PM
I believe it's nonstandard to include the second period here. The inside one serves for both when it's the ultimate (clause-ending) punctuation.
...(with the exception of quoting written material where the punctuation is salient) but maybe you are familiar with a different system?
November 10, 2025 at 6:33 PM
...(with the exception of quoting written material where the punctuation is salient) but maybe you are familiar with a different system?
fwiw I think inside for periods (unless there's also more punctuation outside the "") is standard for double quotes because you're quoting what's inside and outside for periods is standard for single quotes because you're mentioning what's inside...
November 10, 2025 at 6:33 PM
fwiw I think inside for periods (unless there's also more punctuation outside the "") is standard for double quotes because you're quoting what's inside and outside for periods is standard for single quotes because you're mentioning what's inside...
And for me to write _He said, "It's cold,"_ as an independent clause would be improper. So, what goes inside the quotes as final punctuation isn't always quoted, and I think that shows that we need something more nuanced than "inside" vs. "outside"!
November 10, 2025 at 6:27 PM
And for me to write _He said, "It's cold,"_ as an independent clause would be improper. So, what goes inside the quotes as final punctuation isn't always quoted, and I think that shows that we need something more nuanced than "inside" vs. "outside"!
We know because, e.g., even if he said "It's cold, and I don't mind" (i.e., he would have had a period in the full thing he said) it would still be correct for me to write: _He said, "It's cold."_ That isn't a misquote because I'm not quoting the period.
November 10, 2025 at 6:27 PM
We know because, e.g., even if he said "It's cold, and I don't mind" (i.e., he would have had a period in the full thing he said) it would still be correct for me to write: _He said, "It's cold."_ That isn't a misquote because I'm not quoting the period.
Well I do think some people believe that, but yes it's not a plausible view. But also imo it's important that the ultimate period when you use "" (e.g., _He said, "It's cold."_) isn't itself quoted in all cases. If I'm quoting audible speech, the period is my end to the sentence, not a quoted end.
November 10, 2025 at 6:27 PM
Well I do think some people believe that, but yes it's not a plausible view. But also imo it's important that the ultimate period when you use "" (e.g., _He said, "It's cold."_) isn't itself quoted in all cases. If I'm quoting audible speech, the period is my end to the sentence, not a quoted end.
OP just says "punctuation."
November 10, 2025 at 6:12 PM
OP just says "punctuation."
Sorry for the rant but whenever this issue comes up I feel so crazy. Neither generalization is correct. There are specific circumstances in which you do one vs. the other, not just for pedantic reasons but because it affects the meaning.
November 10, 2025 at 6:08 PM
Sorry for the rant but whenever this issue comes up I feel so crazy. Neither generalization is correct. There are specific circumstances in which you do one vs. the other, not just for pedantic reasons but because it affects the meaning.
Are you mentioning or quoting a question? Hooo buddy, that's inside. Are you asking a question about a statement? Then it's outside, pal.
November 10, 2025 at 6:05 PM
Are you mentioning or quoting a question? Hooo buddy, that's inside. Are you asking a question about a statement? Then it's outside, pal.
Noooo noam. It literally depends! It depends so much!! If the quotation ends in a dash, then the dash goes inside. If the dash is your own thing added, then it goes outside. If the mentioned clause is a dependent clause, the period goes outside the single quotes; if it's independent, it goes inside.
November 10, 2025 at 6:04 PM
Noooo noam. It literally depends! It depends so much!! If the quotation ends in a dash, then the dash goes inside. If the dash is your own thing added, then it goes outside. If the mentioned clause is a dependent clause, the period goes outside the single quotes; if it's independent, it goes inside.
tbh I'm still waiting for Gwen Stefani to clear this up
November 9, 2025 at 10:58 PM
tbh I'm still waiting for Gwen Stefani to clear this up
Wait, same but for a different part of the song! I didn't know if 'don't tell me cuz it hurts' should be parsed as [don't tell me, because it hurts when you tell me] or [don't tell me the words 'cuz it hurts'; I don't want to hear you say that]. I was so young at the time. 😭
November 9, 2025 at 10:50 PM
Wait, same but for a different part of the song! I didn't know if 'don't tell me cuz it hurts' should be parsed as [don't tell me, because it hurts when you tell me] or [don't tell me the words 'cuz it hurts'; I don't want to hear you say that]. I was so young at the time. 😭