Hopefully we can agree that with age and experience comes wisdom though?

🤢🤮

Pls dont

"Dependence," bravo.

Cope

@kwabene.bsky.social

I'm getting a better sense of where you're coming from.

But if you say value is subjective and given, you can not say it's intrinsic.

And if you say people are valued because they are "causes" of happiness/pleasure, they are also "means" whether the cause is direct or indirect.

If value is subjective, and we "give" each other value by treating them or perceiving them a certain way, that means the value is extrinsic.

Now if treating people as ends is recognizing the objective value that's inherent to the other person, I can understand why you'd call that intrinsic.

Your definition is recursive, I'm still confused what you mean by intrinsic value here.

As for empathy, can you help me understand what you're getting at? Empathy is extrinsic to the individual. But you're calling value intrinsic.

"a property" is not a robust definition, let alone a justification for value.

I can describe color or figure on a molecular level. I can't do the same for value. Why should I believe humans have intrinsic value?

I'm struggling to understand your justification.

You can treat people as ends, but to say that people are objectively/intrinsically ends requires some authority or reason. If I said humans are not ends but means, how would you respond to that?

I usually think of value as in reference to something else. For example, a chair is valuable because I can sit on it. Money is valuable because it can be exchanged for what I want. Many people would say humans have value in reference to a greater purpose or dignity. But the value you describe is not

Where does that value come from?

Which gods specifically

Thanks for the explanation

What did you mean by this?

How did you get me?

Fair critique. Our definition of racism has indeed changed drastically.

How are those connected