Joel Harrison
@profjharrison.bsky.social
Former academic, figuring out what’s next | Music obsessed | Co-host of uswithoutThem, a podcast about mewithoutYou | Vinyl collection on IG: undrgrnd_vinyl | He/him/his | Opinions mine
Like, actual elites. Not the former “crust punk” who is pissed people consider NOFX a punk band. Yeah, that dude is dumb for being mad about that. But punk aesthetics and culture (and its adjacent scenes) are worth preserving for the purposes of cultural subversion. That’s always the goal.
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
Like, actual elites. Not the former “crust punk” who is pissed people consider NOFX a punk band. Yeah, that dude is dumb for being mad about that. But punk aesthetics and culture (and its adjacent scenes) are worth preserving for the purposes of cultural subversion. That’s always the goal.
Conflating subcultural, DIY artistic production with artists like Charli XCX or Green Day in the name of subverting elitism is just… counterproductive? You’re not “freeing the art” from elitist oppression. You’re diffusing DIY scenes into a more general aesthetic that is easily co-opted by elites
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
Conflating subcultural, DIY artistic production with artists like Charli XCX or Green Day in the name of subverting elitism is just… counterproductive? You’re not “freeing the art” from elitist oppression. You’re diffusing DIY scenes into a more general aesthetic that is easily co-opted by elites
I just think it’s weird to say all genres, labels, categories, are inherently elitist and “gatekeeping.” Yes, often these are tools of capitalism to package and commodify art, but not always, and those genres that have historically resisted commodification can and do continue to do so.
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
I just think it’s weird to say all genres, labels, categories, are inherently elitist and “gatekeeping.” Yes, often these are tools of capitalism to package and commodify art, but not always, and those genres that have historically resisted commodification can and do continue to do so.
People in subcultures should be willing to initiate new people into them. They should also recognize that subcultures change, die, and can be reborn. People should also be ok with contesting subcultural boundaries in good faith by both being open to change and, on the other side, open to learning.
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
People in subcultures should be willing to initiate new people into them. They should also recognize that subcultures change, die, and can be reborn. People should also be ok with contesting subcultural boundaries in good faith by both being open to change and, on the other side, open to learning.
Nothing was at stake, according to them, other than “trolling elitists.” 🤷♂️ I didn’t ask any follow ups. I don’t disagree that there are elitists in subcultural communities and that sucks but maybe the problem isn’t elitism as such but the kind of sardonic, cynical discourse around subcultural art.
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
Nothing was at stake, according to them, other than “trolling elitists.” 🤷♂️ I didn’t ask any follow ups. I don’t disagree that there are elitists in subcultural communities and that sucks but maybe the problem isn’t elitism as such but the kind of sardonic, cynical discourse around subcultural art.
I asked what was at stake for them in Charli XCX being emo. Like…can’t she just be a pop artist who writes about those themes? Those themes are so incredibly broad. They’re not owned by emo. It just seemed kinda odd to me to die on this hill when it’s perfectly fine to listen to Charli XCX and emo.
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
I asked what was at stake for them in Charli XCX being emo. Like…can’t she just be a pop artist who writes about those themes? Those themes are so incredibly broad. They’re not owned by emo. It just seemed kinda odd to me to die on this hill when it’s perfectly fine to listen to Charli XCX and emo.
In the comment thread a person claimed Charli XCX was emo and listed a bunch of reasons like lyrical honesty about her fucked up feelings, and death, and broken relationships, in a way where her emotions are clearly on her sleeves.
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
In the comment thread a person claimed Charli XCX was emo and listed a bunch of reasons like lyrical honesty about her fucked up feelings, and death, and broken relationships, in a way where her emotions are clearly on her sleeves.
So trying to find like minded people on the internet is now gatekeeping, fyi. 🙃
I think what annoys me the most about “gatekeeper discourse” especially around emo is that it sincerely regurgitates the same sardonic tone it claims to mock. I hate it.
I think what annoys me the most about “gatekeeper discourse” especially around emo is that it sincerely regurgitates the same sardonic tone it claims to mock. I hate it.
January 4, 2025 at 5:58 AM
So trying to find like minded people on the internet is now gatekeeping, fyi. 🙃
I think what annoys me the most about “gatekeeper discourse” especially around emo is that it sincerely regurgitates the same sardonic tone it claims to mock. I hate it.
I think what annoys me the most about “gatekeeper discourse” especially around emo is that it sincerely regurgitates the same sardonic tone it claims to mock. I hate it.
The 19th c. gothic feel of the film could’ve been so easily overdone, and even though the look and sound is cranked to 11 for most of the film, it never really feels forced or over the top. Just a really impressive piece of filmmaking.
December 28, 2024 at 1:09 AM
The 19th c. gothic feel of the film could’ve been so easily overdone, and even though the look and sound is cranked to 11 for most of the film, it never really feels forced or over the top. Just a really impressive piece of filmmaking.
The latter is something most people tend not to think about watching a movie but Eggers has sound design aspects in all of his films that sort of grab you by the face and demand you listen. And I really love that about them. It’s probably my favorite aspect of his films.
December 28, 2024 at 1:09 AM
The latter is something most people tend not to think about watching a movie but Eggers has sound design aspects in all of his films that sort of grab you by the face and demand you listen. And I really love that about them. It’s probably my favorite aspect of his films.
But those messages helped get other bands’ feet into the bookstore door where they likely wouldn’t have been able to before. What I’m really saying is Underøath and mewithoutYou owe a lot to the Supertones.
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
But those messages helped get other bands’ feet into the bookstore door where they likely wouldn’t have been able to before. What I’m really saying is Underøath and mewithoutYou owe a lot to the Supertones.
T&N still produced A LOT of music that carried the banner of cultural evangelicalism wrapped in punk aesthetics. But in many ways the people interested in those kinds of messages (anti-abortion, I’m a depraved sinner, the world is against Jesus, etc.) didn’t really need or want Christian punk.
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
T&N still produced A LOT of music that carried the banner of cultural evangelicalism wrapped in punk aesthetics. But in many ways the people interested in those kinds of messages (anti-abortion, I’m a depraved sinner, the world is against Jesus, etc.) didn’t really need or want Christian punk.
Which, I want to be clear, isn’t to say that Christian punk is the driving force of “deconstruction” but that it was part of a larger “authentically transgressive” ecosystem of evangelical thought that certainly helped grease the wheels so to speak.
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
Which, I want to be clear, isn’t to say that Christian punk is the driving force of “deconstruction” but that it was part of a larger “authentically transgressive” ecosystem of evangelical thought that certainly helped grease the wheels so to speak.
Without the perception of T&N as CCM and the reality that it really wasn’t, I would wager there’d be far less “deconstruction” among younger Gen X / older millennial evangelicals.
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
Without the perception of T&N as CCM and the reality that it really wasn’t, I would wager there’d be far less “deconstruction” among younger Gen X / older millennial evangelicals.
Why does that matter? That tension actually allows for some pretty transgressive music to break through the CCM ideological barrier, not just in terms of aesthetics but message.
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
Why does that matter? That tension actually allows for some pretty transgressive music to break through the CCM ideological barrier, not just in terms of aesthetics but message.
But simply put, what he was doing was kinda genius. He pitched T&N to bookstore execs as though the bands were just as wholesome as CCM artists knowing full well that most of them were not and actually had no interest in being the “Christian version of _______.”
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
But simply put, what he was doing was kinda genius. He pitched T&N to bookstore execs as though the bands were just as wholesome as CCM artists knowing full well that most of them were not and actually had no interest in being the “Christian version of _______.”
The problem is that it really wasn’t that way for most of the bands. There’s a lot of kinda complicated behind the scenes business/distro stuff with the strategy Brandon Ebel pursued to make T&N as CCM friendly as possible.
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
The problem is that it really wasn’t that way for most of the bands. There’s a lot of kinda complicated behind the scenes business/distro stuff with the strategy Brandon Ebel pursued to make T&N as CCM friendly as possible.
A lot of fans who are now looking back remember T&N as a “parallel universe” of music made specifically for Christians—just like the rest of mainstream CCM. T&N releases were sold in Xian bookstores alongside Carman and DC Talk, and the T&N logo came to essentially mean “Xian mom and dad approved”
December 20, 2024 at 3:47 AM
A lot of fans who are now looking back remember T&N as a “parallel universe” of music made specifically for Christians—just like the rest of mainstream CCM. T&N releases were sold in Xian bookstores alongside Carman and DC Talk, and the T&N logo came to essentially mean “Xian mom and dad approved”
9. I Love Your Lifestyle - Summerland
8. Stand Still - Steps Ascending
7. Starflyer 59 - Lust for Gold
6. Glitterer - Rationale
5. Gleemer - End of the Nail
4. Pedro the Lion - Santa Cruz
3. Heart to Gold - Free Help
2. Cursive - Devourer
8. Stand Still - Steps Ascending
7. Starflyer 59 - Lust for Gold
6. Glitterer - Rationale
5. Gleemer - End of the Nail
4. Pedro the Lion - Santa Cruz
3. Heart to Gold - Free Help
2. Cursive - Devourer
December 19, 2024 at 11:42 PM
9. I Love Your Lifestyle - Summerland
8. Stand Still - Steps Ascending
7. Starflyer 59 - Lust for Gold
6. Glitterer - Rationale
5. Gleemer - End of the Nail
4. Pedro the Lion - Santa Cruz
3. Heart to Gold - Free Help
2. Cursive - Devourer
8. Stand Still - Steps Ascending
7. Starflyer 59 - Lust for Gold
6. Glitterer - Rationale
5. Gleemer - End of the Nail
4. Pedro the Lion - Santa Cruz
3. Heart to Gold - Free Help
2. Cursive - Devourer
14. Mister Goblin - Frog Poems
13. Annabel - Worldviews
12. Maxwell Stern - In The Good Light
11. Barely Civil - I’d Say I’m Not Fine
10. The Forecast - Good Journey
13. Annabel - Worldviews
12. Maxwell Stern - In The Good Light
11. Barely Civil - I’d Say I’m Not Fine
10. The Forecast - Good Journey
December 19, 2024 at 11:42 PM
14. Mister Goblin - Frog Poems
13. Annabel - Worldviews
12. Maxwell Stern - In The Good Light
11. Barely Civil - I’d Say I’m Not Fine
10. The Forecast - Good Journey
13. Annabel - Worldviews
12. Maxwell Stern - In The Good Light
11. Barely Civil - I’d Say I’m Not Fine
10. The Forecast - Good Journey