Liam Proven
@lproven.bsky.social
Tall, dark, black-clad, atheist, skeptic, vegetarian, SF fan; writes (mostly about computers) for a living. All opinions expressed are my own & not those of any employer.
Yes it is. Mutable & evolutionary.
What I'm trying to do is to trace that evolution.
& a small number of people get as angry about that as when Charles Darwin tried to do it.
What I'm trying to do is to trace that evolution.
& a small number of people get as angry about that as when Charles Darwin tried to do it.
November 11, 2025 at 12:48 PM
Yes it is. Mutable & evolutionary.
What I'm trying to do is to trace that evolution.
& a small number of people get as angry about that as when Charles Darwin tried to do it.
What I'm trying to do is to trace that evolution.
& a small number of people get as angry about that as when Charles Darwin tried to do it.
I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure that the Alto did not have any toolbars at all. The late great Bill Atkinson invented them.
It didn't have a standardised menu bar, either. (Some apps did, kinda.) Or dialogue boxes. Apple invented that stuff for the Lisa. After that they were givens, axiomatic.
It didn't have a standardised menu bar, either. (Some apps did, kinda.) Or dialogue boxes. Apple invented that stuff for the Lisa. After that they were givens, axiomatic.
November 11, 2025 at 12:45 PM
I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure that the Alto did not have any toolbars at all. The late great Bill Atkinson invented them.
It didn't have a standardised menu bar, either. (Some apps did, kinda.) Or dialogue boxes. Apple invented that stuff for the Lisa. After that they were givens, axiomatic.
It didn't have a standardised menu bar, either. (Some apps did, kinda.) Or dialogue boxes. Apple invented that stuff for the Lisa. After that they were givens, axiomatic.
Iconbar, dock, & taskbar all are different tools that work in different ways. They're all good. I'm not diminishing any of them. But the differences matter, especially when you compare the timeline of development.
The taskbar was nearly 10Y after Arthur & the NeXTstep beta, & was informed by them.
The taskbar was nearly 10Y after Arthur & the NeXTstep beta, & was informed by them.
November 11, 2025 at 12:42 PM
Iconbar, dock, & taskbar all are different tools that work in different ways. They're all good. I'm not diminishing any of them. But the differences matter, especially when you compare the timeline of development.
The taskbar was nearly 10Y after Arthur & the NeXTstep beta, & was informed by them.
The taskbar was nearly 10Y after Arthur & the NeXTstep beta, & was informed by them.
Win98 added the "quick launch" bar, polluting the conceptual purity - but it was handy!
Only after OS X popularised the Dock as a launcher did Vista let the user pin icons to the taskbar as launchers for things that weren't running yet. Then the function changed.
But RISC OS didn't do that either.
Only after OS X popularised the Dock as a launcher did Vista let the user pin icons to the taskbar as launchers for things that weren't running yet. Then the function changed.
But RISC OS didn't do that either.
November 11, 2025 at 12:39 PM
Win98 added the "quick launch" bar, polluting the conceptual purity - but it was handy!
Only after OS X popularised the Dock as a launcher did Vista let the user pin icons to the taskbar as launchers for things that weren't running yet. Then the function changed.
But RISC OS didn't do that either.
Only after OS X popularised the Dock as a launcher did Vista let the user pin icons to the taskbar as launchers for things that weren't running yet. Then the function changed.
But RISC OS didn't do that either.
Win95's taskbar does neither. It shows *windows* & in the main area shows *nothing else.* It didn't show the app name unless the app does itself. There's no button for the abstruse notion of "an open app".
This is a very important conceptual difference that the "but RISC OS" folks are missing.
This is a very important conceptual difference that the "but RISC OS" folks are missing.
November 11, 2025 at 12:37 PM
Win95's taskbar does neither. It shows *windows* & in the main area shows *nothing else.* It didn't show the app name unless the app does itself. There's no button for the abstruse notion of "an open app".
This is a very important conceptual difference that the "but RISC OS" folks are missing.
This is a very important conceptual difference that the "but RISC OS" folks are missing.
Acorn's iconbar shows running *apps* regardless of whether they have any windows open.
Except when they aren't apps, like the acorn or cog, or if they're real devices. Or virtual devices.
Like multiple mouse buttons, this is cognitive load. Just because some folks learned it doesn't make it easy.
Except when they aren't apps, like the acorn or cog, or if they're real devices. Or virtual devices.
Like multiple mouse buttons, this is cognitive load. Just because some folks learned it doesn't make it easy.
November 11, 2025 at 12:34 PM
Acorn's iconbar shows running *apps* regardless of whether they have any windows open.
Except when they aren't apps, like the acorn or cog, or if they're real devices. Or virtual devices.
Like multiple mouse buttons, this is cognitive load. Just because some folks learned it doesn't make it easy.
Except when they aren't apps, like the acorn or cog, or if they're real devices. Or virtual devices.
Like multiple mouse buttons, this is cognitive load. Just because some folks learned it doesn't make it easy.
I'm not sure if you're arguing with @paolofabiozaino.bsky.social or my article here.
The relevance _in my article_ is that aside from simply recognising the menu contents, in Apple Multifinder, the app name at the end of the menu bar was the only way to know what app you were currently in.
The relevance _in my article_ is that aside from simply recognising the menu contents, in Apple Multifinder, the app name at the end of the menu bar was the only way to know what app you were currently in.
November 11, 2025 at 12:31 PM
I'm not sure if you're arguing with @paolofabiozaino.bsky.social or my article here.
The relevance _in my article_ is that aside from simply recognising the menu contents, in Apple Multifinder, the app name at the end of the menu bar was the only way to know what app you were currently in.
The relevance _in my article_ is that aside from simply recognising the menu contents, in Apple Multifinder, the app name at the end of the menu bar was the only way to know what app you were currently in.
I had a comment on the article itself to similar effect... But they are very different things really. According to Paul Fellows, the DNA went Acorn engineer -> NeXT & so Icon bar to NeXT Dock, then NeXT to MS.
But the task bar isn't a dock, & the dock isn't the icon bar. There's shared DNA, tho'.
But the task bar isn't a dock, & the dock isn't the icon bar. There's shared DNA, tho'.
November 10, 2025 at 6:32 PM
I had a comment on the article itself to similar effect... But they are very different things really. According to Paul Fellows, the DNA went Acorn engineer -> NeXT & so Icon bar to NeXT Dock, then NeXT to MS.
But the task bar isn't a dock, & the dock isn't the icon bar. There's shared DNA, tho'.
But the task bar isn't a dock, & the dock isn't the icon bar. There's shared DNA, tho'.
This is news to me! A bit serial PDP? Gosh...
I'm on the wrong continent to go see it, though...
I'm on the wrong continent to go see it, though...
November 9, 2025 at 11:21 PM
This is news to me! A bit serial PDP? Gosh...
I'm on the wrong continent to go see it, though...
I'm on the wrong continent to go see it, though...
You know what, that's a great idea. In this era of LLM bot driven recognisers that's entirely doable, and I'd buy one of the things.
November 9, 2025 at 7:39 PM
You know what, that's a great idea. In this era of LLM bot driven recognisers that's entirely doable, and I'd buy one of the things.
Yes & no.
V1 was the PDP-7. V2, V3 & V4 were on PDP-11.
Still the wrong machine, though!
I only write the copy, not the headlines, & I don't provide the illustrations. Screenshots, yes, but fillos, no. AIUI (it's not my department) Google punishes us if we don't have a picture of some kind.
V1 was the PDP-7. V2, V3 & V4 were on PDP-11.
Still the wrong machine, though!
I only write the copy, not the headlines, & I don't provide the illustrations. Screenshots, yes, but fillos, no. AIUI (it's not my department) Google punishes us if we don't have a picture of some kind.
November 9, 2025 at 7:37 PM
Yes & no.
V1 was the PDP-7. V2, V3 & V4 were on PDP-11.
Still the wrong machine, though!
I only write the copy, not the headlines, & I don't provide the illustrations. Screenshots, yes, but fillos, no. AIUI (it's not my department) Google punishes us if we don't have a picture of some kind.
V1 was the PDP-7. V2, V3 & V4 were on PDP-11.
Still the wrong machine, though!
I only write the copy, not the headlines, & I don't provide the illustrations. Screenshots, yes, but fillos, no. AIUI (it's not my department) Google punishes us if we don't have a picture of some kind.
Reposted by Liam Proven
It doesn’t know what ‘invent’ is. It doesn’t ‘understand’ anything about what it is doing. It’s not intelligent, it’s just statistics. ‘Inventing’ and ‘hallucinating’ are the same thing and hallucinations will get worse the more powerful the models get.
October 13, 2025 at 7:51 PM
It doesn’t know what ‘invent’ is. It doesn’t ‘understand’ anything about what it is doing. It’s not intelligent, it’s just statistics. ‘Inventing’ and ‘hallucinating’ are the same thing and hallucinations will get worse the more powerful the models get.