Strangely comforting in a way that for now at least I can read this, in the context of when and where it's posted, and be like yeah you didn't fucking write that. Terrified of losing that edge some day though

I, for instance, am not going to attack you because joe biden consciously chose to divert laser guided bombs from russian targets in occupied ukraine to babies' heads in gaza. If i did in turn you could point out how my government played along with that to. It wouldn't end

I'd be obliged to take offense at this if we were still proceeding from the assumption that we are all totemically responsible and accountable for the actions of the governments we hate and didn't vote for; the entire point of this discussion is how dumb that is

For sure, sorry, just thinking out loud in the context of the whole thread

If we want to kick the yanks out, and still have a european alliance, we are going to incur the costs of replacing their equipment and manpower in either scenario, NATO - US or a whole new thing. But given the above, current proposals feel a bit 'baby out with the bathwater'. Do y'know what I mean?

That ministry is, contrary to what many seem to think, primarily staffed, funded, built by and located in Europe, not the USA. *hundreds* of bodies, agencies, buildings. It is explicitly designed to be compatible and harmonised with a rotating series of troops from *all* member militaries.

....But having worked in/for some of these orgs I don't know where people are getting the idea that if, say, the US military in Europe left tomorrow, NATO would 'collapse' or die. It's not an army - think of it more like a continental Ministry of Defense, separate from the army itself.

There's some big misconceptions about what NATO is in everyday practical realities as an institution/organizational structure though. What matters to me is collective defense for Europe, without the US...

Would also like to point out that thanks to the westminster voting system, 20% of the UK's population voted for the party that tried the Rwanda scheme. I have a vast laundry list of grievances with my home country. They are however grounded in nuanced realities!

'It's universally stupid to treat any nation like its population is a monolith, especially if it's coming from a country that my arrogant american pathologies assure me is a complete monolith. I am very smart'

that's a 'no' then. Please come visit us in Europe, healthcare is (mostly) free and we'd be happy to help <3

So it grates when trying to unpack complex and dangerous issues gets mockery from people who are, as we've established, talking out their arse. breathlessly told I'm a trump cuck by someone who doesnt want the UK to have any obligation to defend another european country. 'Progressive'.

... but please be real, it's not what a decisive majority of the electorate are looking for in a GE, and it's getting harder to broach the gritty details of defense topics with the greens without running into scoffing arrogance on topics that deep down, they know they find un-hip and uncouth.

Z's headspace is mostly right, but I'm sorry, the plan as is - also fundamentally unserious. When you think green, you don't think hard-nosed defense and veterans. You think CND, activism, flowers in barrels. Can and should be proud of that tradition....

Yeah, I hope so, European defense with 0 USA is my end goal. I'm just trying to get across to folks there is a vast wealth of *european* personnel, assets, infrastructure and institutional knowledge within NATO, that we need to think very carefully about - I want the greens to have gritty detail

I keep seeing these cat pfp accounts pop up with these mentally ill 'billions must die, genocide now' takes out of nowhere. Genuine question, do you have access to mental health resources where you are? Im sorry if you don't.

Credit where it's due though, the effort you're putting in to even try understanding one of the most acutely important and dangerous moments for hundreds of millions of your scared, uncertain fellow Europeans, puts you ahead of most green supporters. Small beginnings.