Forrest Fleischman
@forrestf.bsky.social
Associate professor of environmental policy at the University of Minnesota. Forest governance, Restoration Social Science, South Asia, Central America, Environmental justice, urban ecosystems, NEPA, homegardens, etc.
But the bigger question seems to be: can we raise money to fund public and common pool goods through voluntary action? And the answer, both theoretically and empirically appears, at least so far, to be no.
November 10, 2025 at 7:28 PM
But the bigger question seems to be: can we raise money to fund public and common pool goods through voluntary action? And the answer, both theoretically and empirically appears, at least so far, to be no.
There's been a lot of publicity about how carbon offsets and credits are not achieving intended goals, but much less publicity about this bigger failure to actual generate revenue. When people talk about fixing the markets, they are usually talking about new ways to measure impact.
November 10, 2025 at 7:28 PM
There's been a lot of publicity about how carbon offsets and credits are not achieving intended goals, but much less publicity about this bigger failure to actual generate revenue. When people talk about fixing the markets, they are usually talking about new ways to measure impact.
For context, this is about the same as the annual budget of the US Forest Service, and less than twice the annual expenditure of Indian governments on forests. The Nature Conservancy has a budget of about 1 billion dollars, so over the last 15 years, TNC has raised more money than the VCM.
November 10, 2025 at 7:28 PM
For context, this is about the same as the annual budget of the US Forest Service, and less than twice the annual expenditure of Indian governments on forests. The Nature Conservancy has a budget of about 1 billion dollars, so over the last 15 years, TNC has raised more money than the VCM.
I also thought it was weird that they said that the Sierra Club was mostly a climate organization. I guess I'm now getting old, but I think of the Sierra Club primarily as a national parks & wilderness areas organization, reflecting its roots as a Bay Area hiking club.
November 8, 2025 at 2:15 PM
I also thought it was weird that they said that the Sierra Club was mostly a climate organization. I guess I'm now getting old, but I think of the Sierra Club primarily as a national parks & wilderness areas organization, reflecting its roots as a Bay Area hiking club.
Thanks! Its hard to run a big national organization that relies heavily on volunteers and local chapters... they're inevitably going to have varying goals. The alternative though isn't much better - other big e-NGOs primarily seem to do what rich donors want, which I don't know if its better.
November 8, 2025 at 2:13 PM
Thanks! Its hard to run a big national organization that relies heavily on volunteers and local chapters... they're inevitably going to have varying goals. The alternative though isn't much better - other big e-NGOs primarily seem to do what rich donors want, which I don't know if its better.
I'd be curious to know more about all of this, maybe from a less biased source than this reporter who seems to have decided that the story was about wokeism harming an environmental group before they actually did the reporting.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
I'd be curious to know more about all of this, maybe from a less biased source than this reporter who seems to have decided that the story was about wokeism harming an environmental group before they actually did the reporting.
Anyway, my point with these stories is that the idea that there is conflict within the organization is hardly new or news, and its not clear from the reporting why or whether these particular conflicts are harming the organization or whether other factors have been more important
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
Anyway, my point with these stories is that the idea that there is conflict within the organization is hardly new or news, and its not clear from the reporting why or whether these particular conflicts are harming the organization or whether other factors have been more important
I also heard from our local Minnesota chapter leadership when I moved here that while the local chapter was focused on social justice issues and promoting high density urban growth, this brought them into conflict with chapters in California - SF in particular, that had the opposite views.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
I also heard from our local Minnesota chapter leadership when I moved here that while the local chapter was focused on social justice issues and promoting high density urban growth, this brought them into conflict with chapters in California - SF in particular, that had the opposite views.
This was a political non-starter, and meant that the club couldn't meaningfully participate in the wheeling and dealing that the smaller and more nimble organizations could do, meaning that the Sierra Club was basically a non-participant in the conflicts I worked on.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
This was a political non-starter, and meant that the club couldn't meaningfully participate in the wheeling and dealing that the smaller and more nimble organizations could do, meaning that the Sierra Club was basically a non-participant in the conflicts I worked on.
Later there was a membership referendum which made the official position of the Club that there should be NO logging at all on national forest lands.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
Later there was a membership referendum which made the official position of the Club that there should be NO logging at all on national forest lands.
this was part of an implicit agreement between the timber industry and the big environmental groups - the enviros got national parks, the timber industry got the forests - so the SC wasn't engaged in national forest policy.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
this was part of an implicit agreement between the timber industry and the big environmental groups - the enviros got national parks, the timber industry got the forests - so the SC wasn't engaged in national forest policy.
First, during the late 80s and early 90s timber wars, the Sierra Club had stood on the sidelines while smaller activist orgs took the lead.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
First, during the late 80s and early 90s timber wars, the Sierra Club had stood on the sidelines while smaller activist orgs took the lead.
Later, when I worked on national forest policy in the 00s I learned that the Sierra Club had largely sidelined itself from these efforts through 2 errors.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
Later, when I worked on national forest policy in the 00s I learned that the Sierra Club had largely sidelined itself from these efforts through 2 errors.
And of course, Brower was eventually kicked out and started a bunch of other organizations with a more radical/activist bent.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
And of course, Brower was eventually kicked out and started a bunch of other organizations with a more radical/activist bent.
He wanted it to be an activist organization, but the old-line leadership wanted it to remain primarily a regional hiking club, which is what it was for most of its early history - between 1892 and the 1960s, when Brower gained control.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
He wanted it to be an activist organization, but the old-line leadership wanted it to remain primarily a regional hiking club, which is what it was for most of its early history - between 1892 and the 1960s, when Brower gained control.
I was fortunate to hear a talk by David Brower a couple months before he passed away. What an amazing person! He talked about internal struggles when he took over as a leader of the Sierra Club
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
I was fortunate to hear a talk by David Brower a couple months before he passed away. What an amazing person! He talked about internal struggles when he took over as a leader of the Sierra Club
It does seem that the organization suffers from some serious internal conflicts, but that's always been the case.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
It does seem that the organization suffers from some serious internal conflicts, but that's always been the case.
The reporter seems really eager to blame the Sierra Club's problems on "woke" but the reporting doesn't seem to clearly support this.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
The reporter seems really eager to blame the Sierra Club's problems on "woke" but the reporting doesn't seem to clearly support this.
But the reporting also says, "The Sierra Club said it had reduced its efforts to recruit these more casual supporters in 2023" so maybe this is a strategic choice by the organization instead of a fundamental failing? Its hard to tell from the story
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
But the reporting also says, "The Sierra Club said it had reduced its efforts to recruit these more casual supporters in 2023" so maybe this is a strategic choice by the organization instead of a fundamental failing? Its hard to tell from the story
More concerning is that the reporting says that there hasn't been a Trump driven rise in membership this year. This is surprising and potentially concerning for the organization, as it would be a reversal of past trends.
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
More concerning is that the reporting says that there hasn't been a Trump driven rise in membership this year. This is surprising and potentially concerning for the organization, as it would be a reversal of past trends.
maybe SC is more reliant on billionaires than I thought?
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
maybe SC is more reliant on billionaires than I thought?
I always thought the Sierra Club was a member driven organization, but if revenues are not correlated with membership, maybe they actually get most of their revenue from a few wealthy donors or foundations? They mention Bloomberg's gigantic past gifts...
November 7, 2025 at 3:43 PM
I always thought the Sierra Club was a member driven organization, but if revenues are not correlated with membership, maybe they actually get most of their revenue from a few wealthy donors or foundations? They mention Bloomberg's gigantic past gifts...