I think this discussion went on for a bit too long tbh. Put simply, I do agree that both Ras and Nokt>>>Sora, but I do think the circumstances surrounding their respective defeats were different. With Ras, it's mostly oversight with elements of luck. In Nokt's case, it's high overconfidence.
September 8, 2025 at 8:09 PM
I think this discussion went on for a bit too long tbh. Put simply, I do agree that both Ras and Nokt>>>Sora, but I do think the circumstances surrounding their respective defeats were different. With Ras, it's mostly oversight with elements of luck. In Nokt's case, it's high overconfidence.
Yea that's after he let it get right in front of his face 💀 He has like a dozen of different elemental powers and shatterspin with longer and better range, he didn't make an effort to use them. He also only tried attacking it once, and missed due to its small size. He was obv underestimating Sora.
September 8, 2025 at 7:59 PM
Yea that's after he let it get right in front of his face 💀 He has like a dozen of different elemental powers and shatterspin with longer and better range, he didn't make an effort to use them. He also only tried attacking it once, and missed due to its small size. He was obv underestimating Sora.
No. Nokt stands there and makes fun of the bee, calling it a "Little bumblebee". An oversight is unintentional by definition. Nokt knew of Sora's tech abilities and still decided to underestimate her and not act against her tech constructs when he had a blatant chance to do so.
September 8, 2025 at 7:49 PM
No. Nokt stands there and makes fun of the bee, calling it a "Little bumblebee". An oversight is unintentional by definition. Nokt knew of Sora's tech abilities and still decided to underestimate her and not act against her tech constructs when he had a blatant chance to do so.
Because he was fixated on the fight, not the consequence their fight had on the surroundings lol. Hence why I said it's a small oversight on his part. It doesn't prove he's incompetent in combat when we have him arguably defeating Lloyd and easily outmatching Arin and Sora in 2v1.
September 8, 2025 at 7:48 PM
Because he was fixated on the fight, not the consequence their fight had on the surroundings lol. Hence why I said it's a small oversight on his part. It doesn't prove he's incompetent in combat when we have him arguably defeating Lloyd and easily outmatching Arin and Sora in 2v1.
I already explained why this point doesn't work. DR isn't consistent when it comes to this. We're literally discussing Ras getting hit by falling rocks, if he could react to lightning he would've dodged a pile of falling rocks. Sora was also moving the cage using her tech, which can amp its speed.
September 8, 2025 at 7:42 PM
I already explained why this point doesn't work. DR isn't consistent when it comes to this. We're literally discussing Ras getting hit by falling rocks, if he could react to lightning he would've dodged a pile of falling rocks. Sora was also moving the cage using her tech, which can amp its speed.
Him being incapable of reacting to an attack physically isn't oversight, it's lack of ability. The oversight is that he sent Sora into the panel and broke it, which freed Riyu. Ras made a honest effort to attack Sora and stop her, he was running at her to stop her. Nokt didn't, he just mocked her.
September 8, 2025 at 7:28 PM
Him being incapable of reacting to an attack physically isn't oversight, it's lack of ability. The oversight is that he sent Sora into the panel and broke it, which freed Riyu. Ras made a honest effort to attack Sora and stop her, he was running at her to stop her. Nokt didn't, he just mocked her.
You literally just said Ras should've dodged instead of deflecting it, as if he's able to foresee that specifically deflecting it would lead to a collapse. Perhaps deflecting it into the island was a small oversight, but it's not really evidence of him being 'incompetent' in combat.
September 8, 2025 at 7:25 PM
You literally just said Ras should've dodged instead of deflecting it, as if he's able to foresee that specifically deflecting it would lead to a collapse. Perhaps deflecting it into the island was a small oversight, but it's not really evidence of him being 'incompetent' in combat.
They're the same in that they'd both comfortably beat Sora equal grounds. The circumstances by which they lost to Sora in canon, are again, not the same. Ras lost due to small oversight which doesn't make him incompetent in combat.
Nokt on the other hand had every chance to beat Sora and didn't.
Nokt on the other hand had every chance to beat Sora and didn't.
September 8, 2025 at 7:19 PM
They're the same in that they'd both comfortably beat Sora equal grounds. The circumstances by which they lost to Sora in canon, are again, not the same. Ras lost due to small oversight which doesn't make him incompetent in combat.
Nokt on the other hand had every chance to beat Sora and didn't.
Nokt on the other hand had every chance to beat Sora and didn't.
Obviously. Why is Nokt relevant to this in anyway?
September 8, 2025 at 6:51 PM
Obviously. Why is Nokt relevant to this in anyway?
His intent was deflecting it, not causing the collapse. It's to Arin and Sora's luck that Ras didn't deflect it to the left side or the right side. Ras wasn't aware of what his action would cause. That doesn't prove he's incompetent in combat, he still moped the floor with Arin and Sora.
September 8, 2025 at 6:49 PM
His intent was deflecting it, not causing the collapse. It's to Arin and Sora's luck that Ras didn't deflect it to the left side or the right side. Ras wasn't aware of what his action would cause. That doesn't prove he's incompetent in combat, he still moped the floor with Arin and Sora.
It's mostly inconsistent, yes. There are still given outcomes though. Current Sora would definitely lose to Ras in a one on one scenario where she doesn't have Arin on her side, catch him off guard or isn't favored by the environment. I think this should reasonably agreeable.
September 8, 2025 at 6:44 PM
It's mostly inconsistent, yes. There are still given outcomes though. Current Sora would definitely lose to Ras in a one on one scenario where she doesn't have Arin on her side, catch him off guard or isn't favored by the environment. I think this should reasonably agreeable.
Again, he doesn't have foresight. He likely didn't think know would cause such a powerful collapse that would specifically hinder him and spare Arin and Sora. Ras' thought process obviously wasn't "Oh yeah let me deflect this bone up so Arin and Sora can manage to escape"
September 8, 2025 at 6:39 PM
Again, he doesn't have foresight. He likely didn't think know would cause such a powerful collapse that would specifically hinder him and spare Arin and Sora. Ras' thought process obviously wasn't "Oh yeah let me deflect this bone up so Arin and Sora can manage to escape"
He can't dodge it because the story literally shows him to be incapable of reacting to it. He doesn't even hit it with his hammer or make any sort of movement that suggests he's trying to dodge. He just gets hit.
Power scaling in DR is highly inconsistent so Ras dodging lightning isn't relevant.
Power scaling in DR is highly inconsistent so Ras dodging lightning isn't relevant.
September 8, 2025 at 6:34 PM
He can't dodge it because the story literally shows him to be incapable of reacting to it. He doesn't even hit it with his hammer or make any sort of movement that suggests he's trying to dodge. He just gets hit.
Power scaling in DR is highly inconsistent so Ras dodging lightning isn't relevant.
Power scaling in DR is highly inconsistent so Ras dodging lightning isn't relevant.
"Ras is more incompetent" Because he didn't foresee the cave collapsing on him after parrying the throw? lol You act like he knew it would cause the collapse and did it anyway, which's clearly not the case. This point you raised doesn't really disprove the fact that Arin and Sora were saved by luck
September 8, 2025 at 6:30 PM
"Ras is more incompetent" Because he didn't foresee the cave collapsing on him after parrying the throw? lol You act like he knew it would cause the collapse and did it anyway, which's clearly not the case. This point you raised doesn't really disprove the fact that Arin and Sora were saved by luck
Wrong, he was charging at Sora to stop her, but she powered up too fast and fired it mid-charge it was clearly too quick for him to react.
That's totally different from Nokt just standing there mocking and yawning. Nokt even gave Sora time to get up and pull this off instead of knocking her out.
That's totally different from Nokt just standing there mocking and yawning. Nokt even gave Sora time to get up and pull this off instead of knocking her out.
September 8, 2025 at 6:26 PM
Wrong, he was charging at Sora to stop her, but she powered up too fast and fired it mid-charge it was clearly too quick for him to react.
That's totally different from Nokt just standing there mocking and yawning. Nokt even gave Sora time to get up and pull this off instead of knocking her out.
That's totally different from Nokt just standing there mocking and yawning. Nokt even gave Sora time to get up and pull this off instead of knocking her out.
That's not something Arin nor Sora planned out or had any agency over lol. They didn't premeditate that, and they just barely escaped the collapse too. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
Lastly, why did you even bring nokt up lmao? We were talking about bone king vs ras
Lastly, why did you even bring nokt up lmao? We were talking about bone king vs ras
September 8, 2025 at 6:06 PM
That's not something Arin nor Sora planned out or had any agency over lol. They didn't premeditate that, and they just barely escaped the collapse too. It has nothing to do with intelligence.
Lastly, why did you even bring nokt up lmao? We were talking about bone king vs ras
Lastly, why did you even bring nokt up lmao? We were talking about bone king vs ras
Sora's control collar on Nokt ≠ complete environmental advantage. Nokt had plenty of time to dodge or destroy the bee but didn't during combat. Ras didn't stand there mocking Sora for 3 seconds, he just got hit.
It was luck. He lost because he deflected Arin's throw upwards, causing the collapse-
It was luck. He lost because he deflected Arin's throw upwards, causing the collapse-
September 8, 2025 at 6:06 PM
Sora's control collar on Nokt ≠ complete environmental advantage. Nokt had plenty of time to dodge or destroy the bee but didn't during combat. Ras didn't stand there mocking Sora for 3 seconds, he just got hit.
It was luck. He lost because he deflected Arin's throw upwards, causing the collapse-
It was luck. He lost because he deflected Arin's throw upwards, causing the collapse-
You can't argue the same for Nokt, they had equal elements, no off-guard or environment factors. Plus, Nokt's technique amps his strength tenfold and is tough to counter.
Yeah, Ras never 'won' a full encounter, but he was clearly overpowering Arin and Sora. They escaped alive mostly thanks to luck.
Yeah, Ras never 'won' a full encounter, but he was clearly overpowering Arin and Sora. They escaped alive mostly thanks to luck.
September 8, 2025 at 5:38 PM
You can't argue the same for Nokt, they had equal elements, no off-guard or environment factors. Plus, Nokt's technique amps his strength tenfold and is tough to counter.
Yeah, Ras never 'won' a full encounter, but he was clearly overpowering Arin and Sora. They escaped alive mostly thanks to luck.
Yeah, Ras never 'won' a full encounter, but he was clearly overpowering Arin and Sora. They escaped alive mostly thanks to luck.
The context surrounding his defeat is pretty important too. He was in a room full of tech and was caught pretty much off guard by Sora (the EM of Tech mind you), the amount of training Sora had is completely irrelevant to the way she won. In any real combat scenario, Ras mops the floor with Sora.
September 8, 2025 at 5:08 PM
The context surrounding his defeat is pretty important too. He was in a room full of tech and was caught pretty much off guard by Sora (the EM of Tech mind you), the amount of training Sora had is completely irrelevant to the way she won. In any real combat scenario, Ras mops the floor with Sora.
"girl can't take a joke" cuz I tried engaging in productive discourse bruh 😭😭😭
July 29, 2025 at 7:35 PM
"girl can't take a joke" cuz I tried engaging in productive discourse bruh 😭😭😭
How is this glaze? I'm literally relaying what happened in the story and explaining why considering it a victory is a valid interpretation. Lloyd attacked Ras while he was off guard and obviously intended on landing attacks, he failed, and got hard-countered. I don't see the confusion here.
July 29, 2025 at 7:01 PM
How is this glaze? I'm literally relaying what happened in the story and explaining why considering it a victory is a valid interpretation. Lloyd attacked Ras while he was off guard and obviously intended on landing attacks, he failed, and got hard-countered. I don't see the confusion here.
Fr, people just be saying shit some times. It literally makes perfect sense that Ras, someone who's honed his combat skills to their peak without an element, and is likely more experienced than Lloyd, would be more accustomed to close quarters combat than Lloyd.
July 29, 2025 at 6:46 PM
Fr, people just be saying shit some times. It literally makes perfect sense that Ras, someone who's honed his combat skills to their peak without an element, and is likely more experienced than Lloyd, would be more accustomed to close quarters combat than Lloyd.
Combat is judged by objectives. Lloyd attacked Ras with the likely intent of subduing him, and actually landing a hit. Lloyd failed to land a single blow and got countered despite off-guarding Ras. Lloyd failed offensively and Ras had flawless counters. I think you def can count that as a victory.
July 29, 2025 at 6:42 PM
Combat is judged by objectives. Lloyd attacked Ras with the likely intent of subduing him, and actually landing a hit. Lloyd failed to land a single blow and got countered despite off-guarding Ras. Lloyd failed offensively and Ras had flawless counters. I think you def can count that as a victory.
Ras got hit by shockwave twice before getting attacked by wolf warriors while on the ground, hit by Nokt's heat, then injured by shatterspin, hit more by Nokt with his own hammer, lightning, then hit by shatterspin AGAIN, and only then did he *almost* die.
Doubt anyone else is surviving all that.
Doubt anyone else is surviving all that.
July 5, 2025 at 12:37 AM
Ras got hit by shockwave twice before getting attacked by wolf warriors while on the ground, hit by Nokt's heat, then injured by shatterspin, hit more by Nokt with his own hammer, lightning, then hit by shatterspin AGAIN, and only then did he *almost* die.
Doubt anyone else is surviving all that.
Doubt anyone else is surviving all that.