Dev Wells
@wlls.dev
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Principal Eng @ Capital Rx -- focused on frontend
Principal Eng @ Capital Rx -- focused on frontend
FWIW mature tailwind repos I've worked in usually have both. They'll have a mapping layer of css vars for business-specific UI (e.g *-brand-primary) to their design tokens (blue-500 or whatever your color primitives are).
November 27, 2025 at 11:02 AM
FWIW mature tailwind repos I've worked in usually have both. They'll have a mapping layer of css vars for business-specific UI (e.g *-brand-primary) to their design tokens (blue-500 or whatever your color primitives are).
It does work, and say as much in the post. It takes discipline, and an agreement on what those vars should be/how to use them/when they can change.
Tailwind can do this effectively but with less guesswork/bikeshedding and it *mostly* transfers between projects for easy onboarding.
Tailwind can do this effectively but with less guesswork/bikeshedding and it *mostly* transfers between projects for easy onboarding.
November 27, 2025 at 11:02 AM
It does work, and say as much in the post. It takes discipline, and an agreement on what those vars should be/how to use them/when they can change.
Tailwind can do this effectively but with less guesswork/bikeshedding and it *mostly* transfers between projects for easy onboarding.
Tailwind can do this effectively but with less guesswork/bikeshedding and it *mostly* transfers between projects for easy onboarding.
That's not to say it's not worth pursuing, quite the opposite. My point is that there's complexity here, and I hope we can find better ways to communicate this complexity productively without continuing to see the web "lose" due to the herd mentality around mainstream React/Vercel.
November 25, 2025 at 5:47 PM
That's not to say it's not worth pursuing, quite the opposite. My point is that there's complexity here, and I hope we can find better ways to communicate this complexity productively without continuing to see the web "lose" due to the herd mentality around mainstream React/Vercel.
And this pushback happens (again IME), even if you can *prove* the costs are worth it / business critical, both from a technical perspective (simpler, better tools, faster builds, whatever) and a business one (revenue, dev cycles, opportunity cost rebuilding/training).
November 25, 2025 at 5:43 PM
And this pushback happens (again IME), even if you can *prove* the costs are worth it / business critical, both from a technical perspective (simpler, better tools, faster builds, whatever) and a business one (revenue, dev cycles, opportunity cost rebuilding/training).
But the problem isn't as easy as just showing the data. IME, you (often) have to convince both business and technical leaders to pay both the opportunity costs and migration/rewrite costs of moving away from the React-centric culture.
Even if you can manage this, there will be pushback.
Even if you can manage this, there will be pushback.
November 25, 2025 at 5:43 PM
But the problem isn't as easy as just showing the data. IME, you (often) have to convince both business and technical leaders to pay both the opportunity costs and migration/rewrite costs of moving away from the React-centric culture.
Even if you can manage this, there will be pushback.
Even if you can manage this, there will be pushback.
I think part of where I see struggles (and I think @infrequently.org has pointed this out somewhere in writing) is that often EMs/businesses don't take these problems seriously until it's too late.
Ship fast... until you can't ship at all.
Ship fast... until you can't ship at all.
November 25, 2025 at 5:43 PM
I think part of where I see struggles (and I think @infrequently.org has pointed this out somewhere in writing) is that often EMs/businesses don't take these problems seriously until it's too late.
Ship fast... until you can't ship at all.
Ship fast... until you can't ship at all.
Right agreed, that's where my questions elsewhere in this thread (and my general frustration) is.
TBF to Lustre, I think their audience may (?) be more multiplayer, high interactivity apps reliant on the BEAM (similar to Phoenix LiveView). Less so the average "app" that Avg B-corp needs.
TBF to Lustre, I think their audience may (?) be more multiplayer, high interactivity apps reliant on the BEAM (similar to Phoenix LiveView). Less so the average "app" that Avg B-corp needs.
November 25, 2025 at 5:40 PM
Right agreed, that's where my questions elsewhere in this thread (and my general frustration) is.
TBF to Lustre, I think their audience may (?) be more multiplayer, high interactivity apps reliant on the BEAM (similar to Phoenix LiveView). Less so the average "app" that Avg B-corp needs.
TBF to Lustre, I think their audience may (?) be more multiplayer, high interactivity apps reliant on the BEAM (similar to Phoenix LiveView). Less so the average "app" that Avg B-corp needs.
I agree Astro is a blessing. I actually think there's a lot happening here for people who are tuned into the space.
Astro and Marko 6 come to mind, but also lots of interest outside the immediate JS-ecosystem (Lustre, 11ty, etc) + more focus on progressive enhancement (Svelte, Enhance, etc).
Astro and Marko 6 come to mind, but also lots of interest outside the immediate JS-ecosystem (Lustre, 11ty, etc) + more focus on progressive enhancement (Svelte, Enhance, etc).
November 25, 2025 at 10:52 AM
I agree Astro is a blessing. I actually think there's a lot happening here for people who are tuned into the space.
Astro and Marko 6 come to mind, but also lots of interest outside the immediate JS-ecosystem (Lustre, 11ty, etc) + more focus on progressive enhancement (Svelte, Enhance, etc).
Astro and Marko 6 come to mind, but also lots of interest outside the immediate JS-ecosystem (Lustre, 11ty, etc) + more focus on progressive enhancement (Svelte, Enhance, etc).
To be sure, that doesn't mean *you* need to do both. I love the info, as I said!
I'm more trying to point out that I see a lot of grumpy people on both sides talking past each other, hence less polarization and adding clarity to the issues may be beneficial.
I'm more trying to point out that I see a lot of grumpy people on both sides talking past each other, hence less polarization and adding clarity to the issues may be beneficial.
November 25, 2025 at 12:18 AM
To be sure, that doesn't mean *you* need to do both. I love the info, as I said!
I'm more trying to point out that I see a lot of grumpy people on both sides talking past each other, hence less polarization and adding clarity to the issues may be beneficial.
I'm more trying to point out that I see a lot of grumpy people on both sides talking past each other, hence less polarization and adding clarity to the issues may be beneficial.
The information is incredible, as always, thanks. I agree solutions need to be structural, though is there not room for both?
I've been involved in activism of some form for 15 years and there's usually a need for both individual (e.g. grassroots) and structural (regulatory) movement.
I've been involved in activism of some form for 15 years and there's usually a need for both individual (e.g. grassroots) and structural (regulatory) movement.
November 25, 2025 at 12:18 AM
The information is incredible, as always, thanks. I agree solutions need to be structural, though is there not room for both?
I've been involved in activism of some form for 15 years and there's usually a need for both individual (e.g. grassroots) and structural (regulatory) movement.
I've been involved in activism of some form for 15 years and there's usually a need for both individual (e.g. grassroots) and structural (regulatory) movement.
FWIW I don't have answers here, just observations as someone else closely monitoring the narrative around frameworkism vs performance, etc.
November 24, 2025 at 2:11 AM
FWIW I don't have answers here, just observations as someone else closely monitoring the narrative around frameworkism vs performance, etc.
My approach has been to lean into the data, which works for some, but in much of the discourse polarizes further and makes people *more* defensive/look for strawman arguments.
I think the comms issue is more nuanced than it might appear prima facie.
I think the comms issue is more nuanced than it might appear prima facie.
November 24, 2025 at 2:09 AM
My approach has been to lean into the data, which works for some, but in much of the discourse polarizes further and makes people *more* defensive/look for strawman arguments.
I think the comms issue is more nuanced than it might appear prima facie.
I think the comms issue is more nuanced than it might appear prima facie.
e.g. literally in this same thread, commenter points out that pages / features are more complex.
They're right (to a degree), and yet miss the point that the end-result is still a poor user experience at the margins.
I've been struggling with this comms issue now. Do you have any thoughts?
They're right (to a degree), and yet miss the point that the end-result is still a poor user experience at the margins.
I've been struggling with this comms issue now. Do you have any thoughts?
November 24, 2025 at 2:09 AM
e.g. literally in this same thread, commenter points out that pages / features are more complex.
They're right (to a degree), and yet miss the point that the end-result is still a poor user experience at the margins.
I've been struggling with this comms issue now. Do you have any thoughts?
They're right (to a degree), and yet miss the point that the end-result is still a poor user experience at the margins.
I've been struggling with this comms issue now. Do you have any thoughts?
The people that need to engage with this type of post most bounce off of headlines like this.
I love these blog posts, but the typical defensive reactions are so common at this point that I wonder how we can better get people to rethink their positions here?
I love these blog posts, but the typical defensive reactions are so common at this point that I wonder how we can better get people to rethink their positions here?
November 24, 2025 at 2:09 AM
The people that need to engage with this type of post most bounce off of headlines like this.
I love these blog posts, but the typical defensive reactions are so common at this point that I wonder how we can better get people to rethink their positions here?
I love these blog posts, but the typical defensive reactions are so common at this point that I wonder how we can better get people to rethink their positions here?
Tanstack Render
Interoperable rendering framework (wouldn't surprise me given the existing overlaps with Solid etc)
or it's some kind of AI SDK
Interoperable rendering framework (wouldn't surprise me given the existing overlaps with Solid etc)
or it's some kind of AI SDK
November 18, 2025 at 2:28 PM
Tanstack Render
Interoperable rendering framework (wouldn't surprise me given the existing overlaps with Solid etc)
or it's some kind of AI SDK
Interoperable rendering framework (wouldn't surprise me given the existing overlaps with Solid etc)
or it's some kind of AI SDK
Ya I follow.
I'll agree this is likely a net positive, and is one of the reasons I've been interested in Gleam (one way to do things appeal). Constraints are underrated.
I'll agree this is likely a net positive, and is one of the reasons I've been interested in Gleam (one way to do things appeal). Constraints are underrated.
November 17, 2025 at 4:59 PM
Ya I follow.
I'll agree this is likely a net positive, and is one of the reasons I've been interested in Gleam (one way to do things appeal). Constraints are underrated.
I'll agree this is likely a net positive, and is one of the reasons I've been interested in Gleam (one way to do things appeal). Constraints are underrated.
unrelated but again thank you for taking the discussion seriously here
i know how frustrating it is having someone who knows fuck all about your codebase come in and be like "well this doesn't look how i like why don't you change it?!"
trying to *not do that* but also get a deeper understanding
i know how frustrating it is having someone who knows fuck all about your codebase come in and be like "well this doesn't look how i like why don't you change it?!"
trying to *not do that* but also get a deeper understanding
November 17, 2025 at 3:41 PM
unrelated but again thank you for taking the discussion seriously here
i know how frustrating it is having someone who knows fuck all about your codebase come in and be like "well this doesn't look how i like why don't you change it?!"
trying to *not do that* but also get a deeper understanding
i know how frustrating it is having someone who knows fuck all about your codebase come in and be like "well this doesn't look how i like why don't you change it?!"
trying to *not do that* but also get a deeper understanding
it's generally not a question of proving the technical validity, rather of showing that there's an on-ramp that is worth the opportunity costs and literal costs of migrating to something new
this is part of why JSX was able to distribute as it did--it was easy to slot into existing codebases
this is part of why JSX was able to distribute as it did--it was easy to slot into existing codebases
November 17, 2025 at 3:35 PM
it's generally not a question of proving the technical validity, rather of showing that there's an on-ramp that is worth the opportunity costs and literal costs of migrating to something new
this is part of why JSX was able to distribute as it did--it was easy to slot into existing codebases
this is part of why JSX was able to distribute as it did--it was easy to slot into existing codebases