Haven system
@thousandsofbees.bsky.social
29 🏳️⚧️ 🇦🇺🏴 🔞 θΔ& she/her
🐝 That's the point here: Don't insist on a single model that you think should be used for everything. Get used to switching between models according to what is needed, rather than being essentialist about anything. Be precise about what you mean and how you mean something.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 That's the point here: Don't insist on a single model that you think should be used for everything. Get used to switching between models according to what is needed, rather than being essentialist about anything. Be precise about what you mean and how you mean something.
🐝 Likewise, if someone declares that identity is the only acceptable model, they're still gonna care about hormones, genitals, social role, etc., though they'll likely talk about these more like traits than categories, which is understandable but not universally agreed upon.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Likewise, if someone declares that identity is the only acceptable model, they're still gonna care about hormones, genitals, social role, etc., though they'll likely talk about these more like traits than categories, which is understandable but not universally agreed upon.
🐝 If someone declares that gametes are the one true way to categorize sex, then in actuality they're still almost always going to be using secondary characteristics or assignment or something, they just obfuscate that.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 If someone declares that gametes are the one true way to categorize sex, then in actuality they're still almost always going to be using secondary characteristics or assignment or something, they just obfuscate that.
🐝 But by and large, if you neglect one of these in its relevant field, or try to force people to use a single one, it'll cause problems. By and large, attempts to declare that only one model is "true" really just mean obfuscating the use of other models and excluding certain specific models.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 But by and large, if you neglect one of these in its relevant field, or try to force people to use a single one, it'll cause problems. By and large, attempts to declare that only one model is "true" really just mean obfuscating the use of other models and excluding certain specific models.
🐝 Our society could probably do without categorizing things under the assignment, grammatical and maybe legal models, but even then, I'm not necessarily saying we should remove these entirely, just that we probably could. Some of these, you only needa know if you're a doctor or scientist.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Our society could probably do without categorizing things under the assignment, grammatical and maybe legal models, but even then, I'm not necessarily saying we should remove these entirely, just that we probably could. Some of these, you only needa know if you're a doctor or scientist.
🐝 I could probably come up with more models, more pros, more cons, if I spent another while thinking about this. It's complicated! There's not a single model here that's not useful for something, and some with niche uses are nevertheless indispensable in that niche.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 I could probably come up with more models, more pros, more cons, if I spent another while thinking about this. It's complicated! There's not a single model here that's not useful for something, and some with niche uses are nevertheless indispensable in that niche.
🐝 Grammatical model:
Pros: Works for words and humans, reduces ambiguity in communication, can predict identity or other traits.
Cons: Adds complexity to language, predictions are unreliable, little direct usefulness.
Pros: Works for words and humans, reduces ambiguity in communication, can predict identity or other traits.
Cons: Adds complexity to language, predictions are unreliable, little direct usefulness.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Grammatical model:
Pros: Works for words and humans, reduces ambiguity in communication, can predict identity or other traits.
Cons: Adds complexity to language, predictions are unreliable, little direct usefulness.
Pros: Works for words and humans, reduces ambiguity in communication, can predict identity or other traits.
Cons: Adds complexity to language, predictions are unreliable, little direct usefulness.
🐝 Slot/hole model:
Pros: Works for inanimate objects, predicts interactions between objects.
Cons: Not applicable to living organisms, except as extension of genital model.
Pros: Works for inanimate objects, predicts interactions between objects.
Cons: Not applicable to living organisms, except as extension of genital model.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Slot/hole model:
Pros: Works for inanimate objects, predicts interactions between objects.
Cons: Not applicable to living organisms, except as extension of genital model.
Pros: Works for inanimate objects, predicts interactions between objects.
Cons: Not applicable to living organisms, except as extension of genital model.
🐝 Identity model:
Pros: Can predict behaviors and social traits, psychological benefits to some humans, often easy to measure.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, only works for humans, predictions are unreliable, can be hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous.
Pros: Can predict behaviors and social traits, psychological benefits to some humans, often easy to measure.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, only works for humans, predictions are unreliable, can be hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Identity model:
Pros: Can predict behaviors and social traits, psychological benefits to some humans, often easy to measure.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, only works for humans, predictions are unreliable, can be hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous.
Pros: Can predict behaviors and social traits, psychological benefits to some humans, often easy to measure.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, only works for humans, predictions are unreliable, can be hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous.
🐝 Social role model:
Pros: Predicts behavior, works for humans and some animals, directly useful.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, predictions are unreliable depending on species, often requires longer observation to measure, ambiguous.
Pros: Predicts behavior, works for humans and some animals, directly useful.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, predictions are unreliable depending on species, often requires longer observation to measure, ambiguous.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Social role model:
Pros: Predicts behavior, works for humans and some animals, directly useful.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, predictions are unreliable depending on species, often requires longer observation to measure, ambiguous.
Pros: Predicts behavior, works for humans and some animals, directly useful.
Cons: Can be inconsistent over lifespan, predictions are unreliable depending on species, often requires longer observation to measure, ambiguous.
🐝 Legal model:
Pros: Easy measurement with relevant documentation.
Cons: Similar to assignment model.
Pros: Easy measurement with relevant documentation.
Cons: Similar to assignment model.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Legal model:
Pros: Easy measurement with relevant documentation.
Cons: Similar to assignment model.
Pros: Easy measurement with relevant documentation.
Cons: Similar to assignment model.
🐝 Assignment model:
Pros: Can predict conditioned behaviors.
Cons: Relies on other models for assignment, doesn't reflect changes over life, predictions are unreliable, largely only useful for humans, can't be measured directly.
Pros: Can predict conditioned behaviors.
Cons: Relies on other models for assignment, doesn't reflect changes over life, predictions are unreliable, largely only useful for humans, can't be measured directly.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Assignment model:
Pros: Can predict conditioned behaviors.
Cons: Relies on other models for assignment, doesn't reflect changes over life, predictions are unreliable, largely only useful for humans, can't be measured directly.
Pros: Can predict conditioned behaviors.
Cons: Relies on other models for assignment, doesn't reflect changes over life, predictions are unreliable, largely only useful for humans, can't be measured directly.
🐝 Hormonal model:
Pros: Works for many animals, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors.
Cons: Hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous, inconsistent across lifespan and species, predictions are unreliable.
Pros: Works for many animals, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors.
Cons: Hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous, inconsistent across lifespan and species, predictions are unreliable.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Hormonal model:
Pros: Works for many animals, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors.
Cons: Hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous, inconsistent across lifespan and species, predictions are unreliable.
Pros: Works for many animals, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors.
Cons: Hard to measure, sometimes ambiguous, inconsistent across lifespan and species, predictions are unreliable.
🐝 Secondary characteristics model:
Pros: Very easy categorization to measure in adults, works for many species, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors, directly useful.
Cons: Non-specific and often ambiguous, doesn't work in juveniles, not consistent across species.
Pros: Very easy categorization to measure in adults, works for many species, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors, directly useful.
Cons: Non-specific and often ambiguous, doesn't work in juveniles, not consistent across species.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Secondary characteristics model:
Pros: Very easy categorization to measure in adults, works for many species, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors, directly useful.
Cons: Non-specific and often ambiguous, doesn't work in juveniles, not consistent across species.
Pros: Very easy categorization to measure in adults, works for many species, can predict other biological traits, can predict some behaviors, directly useful.
Cons: Non-specific and often ambiguous, doesn't work in juveniles, not consistent across species.
🐝 Gamete model:
Pros: Applicable to animals and plants, can predict reproductive and evolutionary factors.
Cons: Hard to measure, can't make predictions for all species, inconsistent and incomplete across lifespan.
Pros: Applicable to animals and plants, can predict reproductive and evolutionary factors.
Cons: Hard to measure, can't make predictions for all species, inconsistent and incomplete across lifespan.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Gamete model:
Pros: Applicable to animals and plants, can predict reproductive and evolutionary factors.
Cons: Hard to measure, can't make predictions for all species, inconsistent and incomplete across lifespan.
Pros: Applicable to animals and plants, can predict reproductive and evolutionary factors.
Cons: Hard to measure, can't make predictions for all species, inconsistent and incomplete across lifespan.
🐝 Genetic model:
Pros: Similar to chromosome model, accounts for genetic anomalies.
Cons: Similar to chromosome model, except for genetic anomalies.
Pros: Similar to chromosome model, accounts for genetic anomalies.
Cons: Similar to chromosome model, except for genetic anomalies.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Genetic model:
Pros: Similar to chromosome model, accounts for genetic anomalies.
Cons: Similar to chromosome model, except for genetic anomalies.
Pros: Similar to chromosome model, accounts for genetic anomalies.
Cons: Similar to chromosome model, except for genetic anomalies.
🐝 Chromosome model:
Pros: Consistent over life, works for mammals and some other species.
Cons: Hard to measure, not applicable to all species, not consistent across species, may or may not account for chromosomal anomalies, doesn't account for genetic anomalies, only usefully predicts phenotype.
Pros: Consistent over life, works for mammals and some other species.
Cons: Hard to measure, not applicable to all species, not consistent across species, may or may not account for chromosomal anomalies, doesn't account for genetic anomalies, only usefully predicts phenotype.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Chromosome model:
Pros: Consistent over life, works for mammals and some other species.
Cons: Hard to measure, not applicable to all species, not consistent across species, may or may not account for chromosomal anomalies, doesn't account for genetic anomalies, only usefully predicts phenotype.
Pros: Consistent over life, works for mammals and some other species.
Cons: Hard to measure, not applicable to all species, not consistent across species, may or may not account for chromosomal anomalies, doesn't account for genetic anomalies, only usefully predicts phenotype.
🐝 Let's go through some models, and their pros and cons:
Genital model:
Pros: Easy categorization most of the time, works for mammals and some other animals, usually consistent over life, predicts how animals have sex.
Cons: Not applicable to all species, doesn't predict much else.
Genital model:
Pros: Easy categorization most of the time, works for mammals and some other animals, usually consistent over life, predicts how animals have sex.
Cons: Not applicable to all species, doesn't predict much else.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Let's go through some models, and their pros and cons:
Genital model:
Pros: Easy categorization most of the time, works for mammals and some other animals, usually consistent over life, predicts how animals have sex.
Cons: Not applicable to all species, doesn't predict much else.
Genital model:
Pros: Easy categorization most of the time, works for mammals and some other animals, usually consistent over life, predicts how animals have sex.
Cons: Not applicable to all species, doesn't predict much else.
🐝 Different models have different degrees of accuracy, completeness, and simplicity, and are usefully applicable to different situations. Galileo, Newton and Einstein had different models of gravity, and all three are still useful today. Sex and gender are more complex still, and admit more models.
November 18, 2025 at 3:50 AM
🐝 Different models have different degrees of accuracy, completeness, and simplicity, and are usefully applicable to different situations. Galileo, Newton and Einstein had different models of gravity, and all three are still useful today. Sex and gender are more complex still, and admit more models.