Not the full story. In the original signed agreement, Ireland was to take debt equal to 80% of it's GDP. This was waived 3 yrs later due to significant concessions over the NI border and ongoing governance of NI. Unless you're planning to make concessions worth £200bn, it really isn't a precedent.
November 17, 2025 at 10:17 AM
Not the full story. In the original signed agreement, Ireland was to take debt equal to 80% of it's GDP. This was waived 3 yrs later due to significant concessions over the NI border and ongoing governance of NI. Unless you're planning to make concessions worth £200bn, it really isn't a precedent.
Fair enough. Like every other convo I've had with someone passionate about independence, I'm going to file this in the 'enthusiastic but unconvincing, whilst ignoring the hard questions' drawer.
Good night, fella. I hope you get what you want. IF enough other Scots want the same. All the best.
Good night, fella. I hope you get what you want. IF enough other Scots want the same. All the best.
November 16, 2025 at 7:45 PM
Fair enough. Like every other convo I've had with someone passionate about independence, I'm going to file this in the 'enthusiastic but unconvincing, whilst ignoring the hard questions' drawer.
Good night, fella. I hope you get what you want. IF enough other Scots want the same. All the best.
Good night, fella. I hope you get what you want. IF enough other Scots want the same. All the best.
The definition of a deficit is spending more on public services than you raise in tax. It's not complicated.
November 16, 2025 at 7:39 PM
The definition of a deficit is spending more on public services than you raise in tax. It's not complicated.
Scotland's future should be for Scots to decide. If you vote for independence, I wish you the best. I love Scotland. But I'm yet to see anything convincing that it will be good for Scotland.
Perhaps you're just committed to independence? And the reality of it isn't important?
Have a good evening 👍
Perhaps you're just committed to independence? And the reality of it isn't important?
Have a good evening 👍
November 16, 2025 at 7:26 PM
Scotland's future should be for Scots to decide. If you vote for independence, I wish you the best. I love Scotland. But I'm yet to see anything convincing that it will be good for Scotland.
Perhaps you're just committed to independence? And the reality of it isn't important?
Have a good evening 👍
Perhaps you're just committed to independence? And the reality of it isn't important?
Have a good evening 👍
I did. There's a lot of inde info out there. I've given you figures & context. You've given ideology, hope, aspiration, belief. But no data.
If believing (despite Scotland's massive deficit), that we're stronger together makes me a unionist then so be it. I would say I'm a realist & pragmatist.
If believing (despite Scotland's massive deficit), that we're stronger together makes me a unionist then so be it. I would say I'm a realist & pragmatist.
November 16, 2025 at 7:22 PM
I did. There's a lot of inde info out there. I've given you figures & context. You've given ideology, hope, aspiration, belief. But no data.
If believing (despite Scotland's massive deficit), that we're stronger together makes me a unionist then so be it. I would say I'm a realist & pragmatist.
If believing (despite Scotland's massive deficit), that we're stronger together makes me a unionist then so be it. I would say I'm a realist & pragmatist.
You haven't answered any of my questions. Which is typical in these discussions.
You have inadvertently answered this one 👇. And that's fair enough. You want independence, even if you're worse off. Because nothing you've said suggests you'll be better off, beyond blind hope. And that's your choice.
You have inadvertently answered this one 👇. And that's fair enough. You want independence, even if you're worse off. Because nothing you've said suggests you'll be better off, beyond blind hope. And that's your choice.
Serious question, if you knew, for sure, that the process would be long, difficult & expensive, and Scotland would be worse off. Would you still want it?
Is it more about 'freedom', 'soveriegnty' and self-determination?
Or do you really believe you'll be better off financially?
Is it more about 'freedom', 'soveriegnty' and self-determination?
Or do you really believe you'll be better off financially?
November 16, 2025 at 7:15 PM
You haven't answered any of my questions. Which is typical in these discussions.
You have inadvertently answered this one 👇. And that's fair enough. You want independence, even if you're worse off. Because nothing you've said suggests you'll be better off, beyond blind hope. And that's your choice.
You have inadvertently answered this one 👇. And that's fair enough. You want independence, even if you're worse off. Because nothing you've said suggests you'll be better off, beyond blind hope. And that's your choice.
Right. And leaving took 5 years, cost £9bn and has been a disaster for the UK.
November 16, 2025 at 7:10 PM
Right. And leaving took 5 years, cost £9bn and has been a disaster for the UK.
None of those countries were connected in the same way, to the point that the comparison is absurd.
Brexit was leaving an economic alliance. That took 5 years and cost £9bn. Independence is separation of the state. Of course it will be more complicated and take longer. Again, lacking substance...
Brexit was leaving an economic alliance. That took 5 years and cost £9bn. Independence is separation of the state. Of course it will be more complicated and take longer. Again, lacking substance...
November 16, 2025 at 7:09 PM
None of those countries were connected in the same way, to the point that the comparison is absurd.
Brexit was leaving an economic alliance. That took 5 years and cost £9bn. Independence is separation of the state. Of course it will be more complicated and take longer. Again, lacking substance...
Brexit was leaving an economic alliance. That took 5 years and cost £9bn. Independence is separation of the state. Of course it will be more complicated and take longer. Again, lacking substance...
Another question....
The SNP have an appalling track record running devolved public services in Scotland. If you get independence, you'll need nearly perfect governance to get any slight advantage from it.
Where's that coming from? It's easy (&correct) to blame Westminster. Holyrood is no better.
The SNP have an appalling track record running devolved public services in Scotland. If you get independence, you'll need nearly perfect governance to get any slight advantage from it.
Where's that coming from? It's easy (&correct) to blame Westminster. Holyrood is no better.
November 16, 2025 at 6:57 PM
Another question....
The SNP have an appalling track record running devolved public services in Scotland. If you get independence, you'll need nearly perfect governance to get any slight advantage from it.
Where's that coming from? It's easy (&correct) to blame Westminster. Holyrood is no better.
The SNP have an appalling track record running devolved public services in Scotland. If you get independence, you'll need nearly perfect governance to get any slight advantage from it.
Where's that coming from? It's easy (&correct) to blame Westminster. Holyrood is no better.
Serious question, if you knew, for sure, that the process would be long, difficult & expensive, and Scotland would be worse off. Would you still want it?
Is it more about 'freedom', 'soveriegnty' and self-determination?
Or do you really believe you'll be better off financially?
Is it more about 'freedom', 'soveriegnty' and self-determination?
Or do you really believe you'll be better off financially?
November 16, 2025 at 6:50 PM
Serious question, if you knew, for sure, that the process would be long, difficult & expensive, and Scotland would be worse off. Would you still want it?
Is it more about 'freedom', 'soveriegnty' and self-determination?
Or do you really believe you'll be better off financially?
Is it more about 'freedom', 'soveriegnty' and self-determination?
Or do you really believe you'll be better off financially?
Again, very vague. Like every other discussion I've had.
What Scottish income does GERS not attribute? What is it worth?
You've seen Brexit. And still think this is a good idea?
What Scottish income does GERS not attribute? What is it worth?
You've seen Brexit. And still think this is a good idea?
November 16, 2025 at 6:49 PM
Again, very vague. Like every other discussion I've had.
What Scottish income does GERS not attribute? What is it worth?
You've seen Brexit. And still think this is a good idea?
What Scottish income does GERS not attribute? What is it worth?
You've seen Brexit. And still think this is a good idea?
Also, in reference to your original post. There's clearly an argument for Scotland, even if I think it will go badly. But Wales?? That argument is impossible to make. If the ppl of N.Ireland want to unify, then go ahead. That's a 3rd of the UK deficit right there.
November 16, 2025 at 5:09 PM
Also, in reference to your original post. There's clearly an argument for Scotland, even if I think it will go badly. But Wales?? That argument is impossible to make. If the ppl of N.Ireland want to unify, then go ahead. That's a 3rd of the UK deficit right there.
The process would be more costly and complicated than Brexit, for all the reasons you mentioned. For the record, if the ppl of Scotland want independence, it should be up to them & best of luck. But yet to have a single person provide any argument, facts or figures beyond unsubstantiated optimism.
November 16, 2025 at 5:03 PM
The process would be more costly and complicated than Brexit, for all the reasons you mentioned. For the record, if the ppl of Scotland want independence, it should be up to them & best of luck. But yet to have a single person provide any argument, facts or figures beyond unsubstantiated optimism.
There isn't a scenario where Scotland doesn't take on debt. So the legality is irrelevant. If it's based on population (which would be unfair given Scotlands deficit as a %age of GDP is double the UK), then it will still be almost 100% of Scotland's GDP. And you have a large deficit from day 1.
November 16, 2025 at 4:56 PM
There isn't a scenario where Scotland doesn't take on debt. So the legality is irrelevant. If it's based on population (which would be unfair given Scotlands deficit as a %age of GDP is double the UK), then it will still be almost 100% of Scotland's GDP. And you have a large deficit from day 1.
It's why I've long avoided traditional Brit holiday spots. Unfortunately, that rules out most of the beach locations within a 3 hour flight radius. Croatia is lovely, though. And some of the less frequented Greek Islands.
November 16, 2025 at 1:53 PM
It's why I've long avoided traditional Brit holiday spots. Unfortunately, that rules out most of the beach locations within a 3 hour flight radius. Croatia is lovely, though. And some of the less frequented Greek Islands.
Do they actually live in Benidorm?? I assumed they were Brits on tour. I certainly wasn't tarring you with that brush, Al. Honestly, it's even worse if they actually live there. The irony just jumped up a dozen notches. Spain should deport them. Although, I definitely don't want them back 🤔.
November 16, 2025 at 1:45 PM
Do they actually live in Benidorm?? I assumed they were Brits on tour. I certainly wasn't tarring you with that brush, Al. Honestly, it's even worse if they actually live there. The irony just jumped up a dozen notches. Spain should deport them. Although, I definitely don't want them back 🤔.
The irony of a mob of delinquent, coke addled racist Brits in Benidorm, protesting against unwanted foreigners. It really is extraordinary behaviour.
November 16, 2025 at 1:31 PM
The irony of a mob of delinquent, coke addled racist Brits in Benidorm, protesting against unwanted foreigners. It really is extraordinary behaviour.
Had he just got back from Benidorm?
November 16, 2025 at 12:41 PM
Had he just got back from Benidorm?
I'm certain you know more about Scotland's assets than me. What would you say they would be for an independent Scotland? I should say, Scotland's deficit is a significant contributor to the UK being deep in debt. Scotland would take it's share of that, if it were independent.
November 16, 2025 at 11:58 AM
I'm certain you know more about Scotland's assets than me. What would you say they would be for an independent Scotland? I should say, Scotland's deficit is a significant contributor to the UK being deep in debt. Scotland would take it's share of that, if it were independent.
Scotland controls much of it's budget and tax rates. The deficit is almost half the UK total and 10% of Scotland's GDP. Whilst GDP is less than 10% of the UK total. Aside from the enormous upfront cost of independence, Scotland would be saddled with a lot of existing debt & face high borrowing costs
November 16, 2025 at 11:54 AM
Scotland controls much of it's budget and tax rates. The deficit is almost half the UK total and 10% of Scotland's GDP. Whilst GDP is less than 10% of the UK total. Aside from the enormous upfront cost of independence, Scotland would be saddled with a lot of existing debt & face high borrowing costs
Scotland (-£25bn), N. Ireland (-£15bn) and Wales (-£20bn) all run a significant fiscal deficit. I know Westminster is a toxic sh%show, but independence might not be the best solution for those countries...
November 16, 2025 at 10:43 AM
Scotland (-£25bn), N. Ireland (-£15bn) and Wales (-£20bn) all run a significant fiscal deficit. I know Westminster is a toxic sh%show, but independence might not be the best solution for those countries...
If it's pizza and chips, someone has badly advised you.
November 15, 2025 at 7:52 PM
If it's pizza and chips, someone has badly advised you.
Hopefully anything he does stays at state level. But then, which state... There's a number of states where I could see the prosecution not progressing.
November 15, 2025 at 5:27 PM
Hopefully anything he does stays at state level. But then, which state... There's a number of states where I could see the prosecution not progressing.