Yeah, you’re right. I was just focusing on a very narrow perspective within the Aramaic language instead of considering what you said in that sense. Sorry for being a nuisance 😅
November 24, 2024 at 12:49 PM
Yeah, you’re right. I was just focusing on a very narrow perspective within the Aramaic language instead of considering what you said in that sense. Sorry for being a nuisance 😅
I did write a bit on rabbā and potential connection to Arabic rabb
www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQu...
www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQu...
https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQuran/comments/1gogeqc/an_attempted_overview_of_the_origins_of_arabic_رب/
November 22, 2024 at 10:28 PM
I did write a bit on rabbā and potential connection to Arabic rabb
www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQu...
www.reddit.com/r/AcademicQu...
This is from CAL regarding rabbā and maryā
November 22, 2024 at 10:24 PM
This is from CAL regarding rabbā and maryā
... denoting authority over a particular skill or knowledge. Maryā, on the other hand, represents a higher-ranking “master”, often implying ownership or lordship, such as the “master” of a house, and frequently extends to divine usage
November 22, 2024 at 10:22 PM
... denoting authority over a particular skill or knowledge. Maryā, on the other hand, represents a higher-ranking “master”, often implying ownership or lordship, such as the “master” of a house, and frequently extends to divine usage
But I’m not sure about using rabbā, or in this context rabbī, as a synonym for another Aramaic word, maryā (“lord”). While they do overlap in meaning, I don’t think they can be justified as true synonyms. Rabbā refers to an earthly “master”, as seen in CAL, typically...
November 22, 2024 at 10:21 PM
But I’m not sure about using rabbā, or in this context rabbī, as a synonym for another Aramaic word, maryā (“lord”). While they do overlap in meaning, I don’t think they can be justified as true synonyms. Rabbā refers to an earthly “master”, as seen in CAL, typically...
I don’t mind him exercising interpretive liberties, but the issue is that he doesn’t seem to explicitly acknowledge this in the paper. That’s it, just a nitpicking observation, but I find it potentially misleading to other readers regarding what the pšīṭṭā actually says
November 22, 2024 at 10:20 PM
I don’t mind him exercising interpretive liberties, but the issue is that he doesn’t seem to explicitly acknowledge this in the paper. That’s it, just a nitpicking observation, but I find it potentially misleading to other readers regarding what the pšīṭṭā actually says
I understand that in his footnote he referred to traditions based on Matthew, but he strangely projects rabbī to mean "lord", which it does not.
It is perhaps just a silly critical note
It is perhaps just a silly critical note
November 21, 2024 at 1:41 PM
I understand that in his footnote he referred to traditions based on Matthew, but he strangely projects rabbī to mean "lord", which it does not.
It is perhaps just a silly critical note
It is perhaps just a silly critical note
Great paper, but I find it kinda deceiving to present to the readers with that pšīṭṭā translation as "lord", no? Considering that CAL doesn’t define ܪܒܝ (rabbī) as "lord", but rather as the traditional, non-divine human rabbi in this Biblical context 🤔
November 21, 2024 at 1:39 PM
Great paper, but I find it kinda deceiving to present to the readers with that pšīṭṭā translation as "lord", no? Considering that CAL doesn’t define ܪܒܝ (rabbī) as "lord", but rather as the traditional, non-divine human rabbi in this Biblical context 🤔
Or it could simply be that the Greek translation derived its reading variant from ʿayn ḥāmiyah ("warm/hot spring") rather than from a particular debate 🤷♂️
If the "warm/hot spring" reading did not exist in this context, it might instead reflect what you are saying.
If the "warm/hot spring" reading did not exist in this context, it might instead reflect what you are saying.
November 20, 2024 at 12:34 AM
Or it could simply be that the Greek translation derived its reading variant from ʿayn ḥāmiyah ("warm/hot spring") rather than from a particular debate 🤷♂️
If the "warm/hot spring" reading did not exist in this context, it might instead reflect what you are saying.
If the "warm/hot spring" reading did not exist in this context, it might instead reflect what you are saying.
Post originally from x with few corrections and refinements
November 18, 2024 at 9:41 PM
Post originally from x with few corrections and refinements
Sources:
- Encyclopaedia Of The Quran Vol 3, p. 7-9:
archive.org/details/Ency...
- Al-Jallad's paper
publications.acorjordan.org/2021/02/17/j...
archive.org
November 18, 2024 at 9:41 PM
Sources:
- Encyclopaedia Of The Quran Vol 3, p. 7-9:
archive.org/details/Ency...
- Al-Jallad's paper
publications.acorjordan.org/2021/02/17/j...
Recommend watching two of ReligionForBreakfast's videos hosting
@bnuyaminim.bsky.social
(pinging u again 😉) under this link:
youtube.com/watch?v=ocWm...
and and Ahmad al-Jallad under this link:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1K...
@bnuyaminim.bsky.social
(pinging u again 😉) under this link:
youtube.com/watch?v=ocWm...
and and Ahmad al-Jallad under this link:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1K...
youtube.com
November 18, 2024 at 9:40 PM
Recommend watching two of ReligionForBreakfast's videos hosting
@bnuyaminim.bsky.social
(pinging u again 😉) under this link:
youtube.com/watch?v=ocWm...
and and Ahmad al-Jallad under this link:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1K...
@bnuyaminim.bsky.social
(pinging u again 😉) under this link:
youtube.com/watch?v=ocWm...
and and Ahmad al-Jallad under this link:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P1K...
Whatever the rationalisation, we can pinpoint the inscription as a possible pre-Islamic attestation of the Qurʾānic Īsā, possibly utilised by unattested Arab Christian nomads and later spread to Ḥijāz as a form of identification, and possibly isolated from other influence 🤔
November 18, 2024 at 9:40 PM
Whatever the rationalisation, we can pinpoint the inscription as a possible pre-Islamic attestation of the Qurʾānic Īsā, possibly utilised by unattested Arab Christian nomads and later spread to Ḥijāz as a form of identification, and possibly isolated from other influence 🤔
... he would argue that this theonym corresponds to Qurʾānic Arabic ʾīsā, possibly a phonosemantic of yēšūʿ, and reflects the earliest attestation of this from of Jesus' name, likely dating to the fourth century CE.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
... he would argue that this theonym corresponds to Qurʾānic Arabic ʾīsā, possibly a phonosemantic of yēšūʿ, and reflects the earliest attestation of this from of Jesus' name, likely dating to the fourth century CE.
In 2021, Ahmad al-Jallad published a paper on the pre-Islamic divine name ʿsy and the Background of the Qurʾānic Jesus. In his paper, he presents a newly discovered Safaitic inscription bearing the divine name ‹ʿsy› (*ʿisāy), which...
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
In 2021, Ahmad al-Jallad published a paper on the pre-Islamic divine name ʿsy and the Background of the Qurʾānic Jesus. In his paper, he presents a newly discovered Safaitic inscription bearing the divine name ‹ʿsy› (*ʿisāy), which...
Other opinions hold that the name ʿīsā might share with the Hebrew verb עָשָׂה (ʿāsā́, "to do,") which also means "to bring about" in a sense of effecting a deliverance.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
Other opinions hold that the name ʿīsā might share with the Hebrew verb עָשָׂה (ʿāsā́, "to do,") which also means "to bring about" in a sense of effecting a deliverance.
While many Muslim scholars entertain the possibility that the Qurʾanic form of Jesus’ name reflects the usage of certain Christians in Muḥammad's milieu, others maintain that ʿīsā/ʿīsē, in fact, was the original name of Jesus, not yēšūʿ.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
While many Muslim scholars entertain the possibility that the Qurʾanic form of Jesus’ name reflects the usage of certain Christians in Muḥammad's milieu, others maintain that ʿīsā/ʿīsē, in fact, was the original name of Jesus, not yēšūʿ.
A 3rd suggestion is that Jesus’ name has been altered deliberately to assimilate it to Mūsā with whom he is sometimes paired (e.g. ṭalūt “Saul” and jalūt “Goliath”).
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
A 3rd suggestion is that Jesus’ name has been altered deliberately to assimilate it to Mūsā with whom he is sometimes paired (e.g. ṭalūt “Saul” and jalūt “Goliath”).
There are no evidence that the Jews called Jesus “Esau” or anything from the early Christian and Islamic literature to indicate this.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
There are no evidence that the Jews called Jesus “Esau” or anything from the early Christian and Islamic literature to indicate this.
The 2nd suggestion is that the Jews called Jesus עֵשָׂו (ʿēśāw, “Esau”). Admittedly, in Arabic Esau is usually written عِيْسُو (ʿīsū) and this might have been changed into ʿĪsā in order to assimilate it to other Qurʾānc names ending in -ā (e.g. mūsā).
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
The 2nd suggestion is that the Jews called Jesus עֵשָׂו (ʿēśāw, “Esau”). Admittedly, in Arabic Esau is usually written عِيْسُو (ʿīsū) and this might have been changed into ʿĪsā in order to assimilate it to other Qurʾānc names ending in -ā (e.g. mūsā).
Those who favour this view note that in ancient Mesopotamia certain divine names were written in one way and pronounced in another; for example EN-ZU was read ZU-EN.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
Those who favour this view note that in ancient Mesopotamia certain divine names were written in one way and pronounced in another; for example EN-ZU was read ZU-EN.
One suggestion that y-š-ʿ, the Hebrew triconsonant of Yēšūʿ, have been reversed for some cryptic reason to give ʿ-s-y, the Arabic triconsonant of ʿīsā.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
One suggestion that y-š-ʿ, the Hebrew triconsonant of Yēšūʿ, have been reversed for some cryptic reason to give ʿ-s-y, the Arabic triconsonant of ʿīsā.
Western scholars, because of their conviction that Jesus’ authentic Hebrew name was yēšūʿ, have been puzzled by the Qurʾān’s reference to him as عِيْسَى (ʿīsā). They have offered a number of explanations for this apparent anomaly.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
Western scholars, because of their conviction that Jesus’ authentic Hebrew name was yēšūʿ, have been puzzled by the Qurʾān’s reference to him as عِيْسَى (ʿīsā). They have offered a number of explanations for this apparent anomaly.
Now, it does not mean that Arab Christians got the name from Syriac, considering Arabic-speaking Christians already existed in Levant prior to the Islamic expansion, and Arabic-Aramaic bilingualism was common.
November 18, 2024 at 9:39 PM
Now, it does not mean that Arab Christians got the name from Syriac, considering Arabic-speaking Christians already existed in Levant prior to the Islamic expansion, and Arabic-Aramaic bilingualism was common.