But why should it only be posh-gals that get to decide what being a woman is all the time?

I learnt something new today, always happy to learn new stuff, did not know that about Elizabeth Fry.

You're kinda proving my point about the classism inherent in feminism, ESPECIALLY 1832 feminism, and you cannot justify the DENYING OF RIGHTS because of predatory behaviours nearly 2 centuries ago.

And they did not work hard for those spaces, that's such a myth.

Sex separation is as old as civilization, it's presence today is a remnant of tradition, religion and misogyny.

Whenever women have fought and won rights, it's as much about sex as it is middle class upward mobility.

And there's the kicker, which women?

Which damn women?

Do you know why the suffragette movement in the UK and US is unique?

It's the ONLY civil rights movement not led by the working class.

"Third spaces" leads to dead transwomen, to more dead women.

In a way, this rhetoric helps predatory men harm and kill more women.

You are helping them do that.

A "third space" denies transwomen dignity and reinforces their gender dysmorphia. It reverses all efforts they've made to overcome it and achieve contentment in their basic identity, as society tells them "not good enough."

Why can't we make a space that's safe, inclusive and dignified?

This obviously doesn't come from transwomen but predatory men, but again, you cannot just deny the rights and dignity of trans women because of this when you can JUST CHANGE THE SPACE!

Put your intentional use of the wrong pronouns for all trans people (which is a tell for how valid you think they are) aside, please read what I wrote.

I literally said, assuming they're just the same as male changing rooms, there is an increased risk including transwomen.

I'm going to pretend you're being honestly naive and you've misread what I've written, because I don't think I mentioned male sex offenders at all.

And how do you know you can't? We COULDN'T possibly make everywhere wheelchair accessible, and then we did.

Why can't we find a solution here.

I don't know what that change needs to be. I'm a gay cis man, I'm not familiar with the designs of women's spaces.

I don't have the answer.

But we cannot deny trans rights to protect cis women's rights. If your sincere about your "respect" for trans people, how can you believe anything else?

P:7

When Britain decided mobility access and dignity was a right for wheelchair users WE changed the rules and infrastructure of the whole nation to protect that right.

If women only spaces cannot protect all women's rights (and that includes trans women) THEN THE SPACES NEED TO CHANGE!

P:6

But to decide the solution to this is to prohibit trans women from those spaces and to deny them their rights in doing so, is the conclusion only someone who believes those people don't have rights can reach.

If you "respect" trans women you have to respect their right to safety & dignity too.

P:5

To be clear, her arguments that trans women in female spaces, as they currently are, increases the danger to cis women of all ages is one I can sympathise with.

I don't think it does by much, probably less than letting lithium battery laptops be stored in the lockers, but a traceable amount.

P:4

Which as I type that, it makes me feel sick to believe.

But you cannot sanction the protection of one group's rights with the removal and denying of anothers.

That's apartheid.

That's authoratianism.

That's what the monsters I've been raised to be better than have done throughout history.

P:3

But I think her truly most unforgivable sin in it all is this; she has proven her abuser right.

To be clear, I am not saying she is deserving of any abuse.
But when he believed her to be a monster, she has now proven she is. She has validated his belief in her inferiority and shamefulness.

P:2