Kristian G. Andersen
@kgandersen.bsky.social
Infectious diseases & genomics. Immunologist in (voluntary) exile. Minimal sarcasm. Fierce HOA (Hater of Acronyms). Personal account - opinions expressed are my own and not those of my employer.
It’s not so much that it gives them a platform, it’s that it gives them credibility. That latter part is a huge deal and is one reason I never debate cranks - there’s no “meeting in the middle” when one party resorts to pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, acting in bad faith.
November 11, 2025 at 4:06 AM
It’s not so much that it gives them a platform, it’s that it gives them credibility. That latter part is a huge deal and is one reason I never debate cranks - there’s no “meeting in the middle” when one party resorts to pseudoscience and conspiracy theories, acting in bad faith.
Indeed - and there are many more of those "labs" across the world too... Not just SE Asian.
November 10, 2025 at 9:46 PM
Indeed - and there are many more of those "labs" across the world too... Not just SE Asian.
Yeah, fair point, and I should have made this clearer - it's simply because of the massive diversity in the bats themselves, that finding *exactly the right* bat cell line is a near-impossible task.
Shi had an earlier paper on this that highlights it well:
journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/...
Shi had an earlier paper on this that highlights it well:
journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/...
Evolutionary Arms Race between Virus and Host Drives Genetic Diversity in Bat Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome-Related Coronavirus Spike Genes | Journal of Virology
Evolutionary arms race dynamics shape the diversity of viruses and their receptors. Identification of key residues which are involved in interspecies transmission is important to predict potential pathogen spillover from wildlife to humans. Previously, ...
journals.asm.org
November 10, 2025 at 9:46 PM
Yeah, fair point, and I should have made this clearer - it's simply because of the massive diversity in the bats themselves, that finding *exactly the right* bat cell line is a near-impossible task.
Shi had an earlier paper on this that highlights it well:
journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/...
Shi had an earlier paper on this that highlights it well:
journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/...
Nothing mysterious, as one would expect, turns out that there are other SARS-CoV-2 related viruses out there with similar potential.
With BANAL-236, scientists managed to isolate just one such example, but we're only scratching not just the surface, but a tiny point of a hair on the surface.
With BANAL-236, scientists managed to isolate just one such example, but we're only scratching not just the surface, but a tiny point of a hair on the surface.
November 10, 2025 at 8:09 PM
Nothing mysterious, as one would expect, turns out that there are other SARS-CoV-2 related viruses out there with similar potential.
With BANAL-236, scientists managed to isolate just one such example, but we're only scratching not just the surface, but a tiny point of a hair on the surface.
With BANAL-236, scientists managed to isolate just one such example, but we're only scratching not just the surface, but a tiny point of a hair on the surface.
So, no, SARS-CoV-2 wasn't "perfectly adapted" to replication in, and transmission among, humans when it first came on the scene.
It was just good enough - and that is why *it* caused a pandemic, and not one of the gazillion other coronaviruses out there.
It was just good enough - and that is why *it* caused a pandemic, and not one of the gazillion other coronaviruses out there.
November 10, 2025 at 8:09 PM
So, no, SARS-CoV-2 wasn't "perfectly adapted" to replication in, and transmission among, humans when it first came on the scene.
It was just good enough - and that is why *it* caused a pandemic, and not one of the gazillion other coronaviruses out there.
It was just good enough - and that is why *it* caused a pandemic, and not one of the gazillion other coronaviruses out there.
However, you pop in human ACE2 and TMPRSS2, and now BANAL-236 and SARS-CoV-2 can replicate well in the Rhinolophus cell line.
Why is that? Good question, and I don't know - however, it shows that this particular entry barrier between bats and humans is very low for SARS-CoV-2 related viruses.
Why is that? Good question, and I don't know - however, it shows that this particular entry barrier between bats and humans is very low for SARS-CoV-2 related viruses.
November 10, 2025 at 8:09 PM
However, you pop in human ACE2 and TMPRSS2, and now BANAL-236 and SARS-CoV-2 can replicate well in the Rhinolophus cell line.
Why is that? Good question, and I don't know - however, it shows that this particular entry barrier between bats and humans is very low for SARS-CoV-2 related viruses.
Why is that? Good question, and I don't know - however, it shows that this particular entry barrier between bats and humans is very low for SARS-CoV-2 related viruses.
This finding is important because it shows that a virus - BANAL-236 - directly isolated from a bat don't replicate well in a bat cell line. Exactly the same as SARS-CoV-2.
Of course, BANAL-236 - and very likely SARS-CoV-2, *must* be able to replicate in live bats, but that's hard to test.
Of course, BANAL-236 - and very likely SARS-CoV-2, *must* be able to replicate in live bats, but that's hard to test.
November 10, 2025 at 8:09 PM
This finding is important because it shows that a virus - BANAL-236 - directly isolated from a bat don't replicate well in a bat cell line. Exactly the same as SARS-CoV-2.
Of course, BANAL-236 - and very likely SARS-CoV-2, *must* be able to replicate in live bats, but that's hard to test.
Of course, BANAL-236 - and very likely SARS-CoV-2, *must* be able to replicate in live bats, but that's hard to test.
Here's the data showing that - SARS-CoV-2 and BANAL-236 replicate really well in the human Caco-2 cell line, which has human ACE2, but not in the Rhinolophus cell line RFe, which has bat ACE2.
Pop the human versions in, and you regain replication in Rhinolophus cell lines.
Pop the human versions in, and you regain replication in Rhinolophus cell lines.
November 10, 2025 at 8:09 PM
Here's the data showing that - SARS-CoV-2 and BANAL-236 replicate really well in the human Caco-2 cell line, which has human ACE2, but not in the Rhinolophus cell line RFe, which has bat ACE2.
Pop the human versions in, and you regain replication in Rhinolophus cell lines.
Pop the human versions in, and you regain replication in Rhinolophus cell lines.
As the authors conclude in the study:
"BANAL-236 did not replicate in wild-type Rhinolophus cell lines.."
".. the S protein of BANAL-236 interacts more efficiently with hACE2 than with its Rhinolophus counterpart.."
Same as SARS-CoV-2.
www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...
"BANAL-236 did not replicate in wild-type Rhinolophus cell lines.."
".. the S protein of BANAL-236 interacts more efficiently with hACE2 than with its Rhinolophus counterpart.."
Same as SARS-CoV-2.
www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...
Entry, replication and innate immunity evasion of BANAL-236, a SARS-CoV-2-related bat virus, in Rhinolophus and human cells
Asian Rhinolophus bats are considered the natural reservoirs of an ancestral SARS-CoV-2. However, the biology of SARS-CoV-2-related viruses in bat cells is not well understood. Here, we investigated t...
www.biorxiv.org
November 10, 2025 at 8:09 PM
As the authors conclude in the study:
"BANAL-236 did not replicate in wild-type Rhinolophus cell lines.."
".. the S protein of BANAL-236 interacts more efficiently with hACE2 than with its Rhinolophus counterpart.."
Same as SARS-CoV-2.
www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...
"BANAL-236 did not replicate in wild-type Rhinolophus cell lines.."
".. the S protein of BANAL-236 interacts more efficiently with hACE2 than with its Rhinolophus counterpart.."
Same as SARS-CoV-2.
www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...
Completely agree - the times where we left one of the most critical outbreak data be administered by a con man has got to stop.
Cc @kakape.bsky.social.
Cc @kakape.bsky.social.
November 5, 2025 at 4:31 PM
Completely agree - the times where we left one of the most critical outbreak data be administered by a con man has got to stop.
Cc @kakape.bsky.social.
Cc @kakape.bsky.social.
These new findings don’t show “what happened”, only what “is already happening in nature”, so not the same.
As for the FCS, this has been a fun discussion among the Zoonati for years - most think it was acquired in an intermediate host. I’m less certain and think it could have been in a bat.
As for the FCS, this has been a fun discussion among the Zoonati for years - most think it was acquired in an intermediate host. I’m less certain and think it could have been in a bat.
November 2, 2025 at 2:44 PM
These new findings don’t show “what happened”, only what “is already happening in nature”, so not the same.
As for the FCS, this has been a fun discussion among the Zoonati for years - most think it was acquired in an intermediate host. I’m less certain and think it could have been in a bat.
As for the FCS, this has been a fun discussion among the Zoonati for years - most think it was acquired in an intermediate host. I’m less certain and think it could have been in a bat.