olivia
@kallisti.bsky.social
high church anglican, vegetarian, lesbian. philosophy + mathematics
Tradition is good and worth listening to and generally reliable; this doesn't require us ever thinking it's infallible.
Nor does, by the way, the idea of the Holy Spirit guiding the church. To say it does so doesn't mean the church can't resist or err or fail to listen to it.
Nor does, by the way, the idea of the Holy Spirit guiding the church. To say it does so doesn't mean the church can't resist or err or fail to listen to it.
August 4, 2025 at 12:34 AM
Tradition is good and worth listening to and generally reliable; this doesn't require us ever thinking it's infallible.
Nor does, by the way, the idea of the Holy Spirit guiding the church. To say it does so doesn't mean the church can't resist or err or fail to listen to it.
Nor does, by the way, the idea of the Holy Spirit guiding the church. To say it does so doesn't mean the church can't resist or err or fail to listen to it.
I think there's a lot of area between "we can't trust the tradition at all" and "the tradition is infallible." I think the idea that there's a forced choice there is pretty black and white thinking.
August 4, 2025 at 12:31 AM
I think there's a lot of area between "we can't trust the tradition at all" and "the tradition is infallible." I think the idea that there's a forced choice there is pretty black and white thinking.
And yes, tradition is helpful for establishing this. The helpfulness of tradition was not in question in the magisterial Reformation, just whether that meant it was infallible.
August 3, 2025 at 8:05 PM
And yes, tradition is helpful for establishing this. The helpfulness of tradition was not in question in the magisterial Reformation, just whether that meant it was infallible.
Well, that it *is* there! I think Protestants have to be committed to the idea that what is and isn't in Scripture isn't a totally subjective thing. Just because Servetus and Arius and Smith say it isn't in there doesn't mean we have to agree with them.
August 3, 2025 at 8:05 PM
Well, that it *is* there! I think Protestants have to be committed to the idea that what is and isn't in Scripture isn't a totally subjective thing. Just because Servetus and Arius and Smith say it isn't in there doesn't mean we have to agree with them.
were unwilling to say it is a doctrine that all Christians have to believe.
August 3, 2025 at 7:51 PM
were unwilling to say it is a doctrine that all Christians have to believe.
This isn't to say that a Protestant endorsing Sola Scriptura couldn't adopt extra biblical ideas on the strength of tradition, just that they cannot declare it anything more than adiaphora. So Luther and Calvin can (and did) endorse the perpetual virginity of Mary because of tradition, but they
August 3, 2025 at 7:51 PM
This isn't to say that a Protestant endorsing Sola Scriptura couldn't adopt extra biblical ideas on the strength of tradition, just that they cannot declare it anything more than adiaphora. So Luther and Calvin can (and did) endorse the perpetual virginity of Mary because of tradition, but they
mistaken guide to doctrine.
For example, the Catholic church says, by the Pope's infallible decree, that the Assumption of Mary is binding doctrine on Christians, and to knowingly deny it is heresy. Protestants say "no, sorry, just because you say so doesn't make it true."
For example, the Catholic church says, by the Pope's infallible decree, that the Assumption of Mary is binding doctrine on Christians, and to knowingly deny it is heresy. Protestants say "no, sorry, just because you say so doesn't make it true."
August 3, 2025 at 7:51 PM
mistaken guide to doctrine.
For example, the Catholic church says, by the Pope's infallible decree, that the Assumption of Mary is binding doctrine on Christians, and to knowingly deny it is heresy. Protestants say "no, sorry, just because you say so doesn't make it true."
For example, the Catholic church says, by the Pope's infallible decree, that the Assumption of Mary is binding doctrine on Christians, and to knowingly deny it is heresy. Protestants say "no, sorry, just because you say so doesn't make it true."
Catholics and Orthodox think that the church is infallible, e.g. that if something is declared as doctrine in general council of all bishops, it is thereby binding doctrine on all Christians. I do not. I think tradition is a usually good, but imperfect, and sometimes just flat out
August 3, 2025 at 7:51 PM
Catholics and Orthodox think that the church is infallible, e.g. that if something is declared as doctrine in general council of all bishops, it is thereby binding doctrine on all Christians. I do not. I think tradition is a usually good, but imperfect, and sometimes just flat out
And in doing so we're not abandoning Sola Scriptura any more than is the convert who uses reason and academic investigation to become a Christian in the first place.
August 3, 2025 at 7:38 PM
And in doing so we're not abandoning Sola Scriptura any more than is the convert who uses reason and academic investigation to become a Christian in the first place.
But this is a similar process to that Protestants accept for the canon: we begin by basically trusting the tradition, by whose testimony we conclude that the canon of scripture is the rule of faith.
August 3, 2025 at 7:38 PM
But this is a similar process to that Protestants accept for the canon: we begin by basically trusting the tradition, by whose testimony we conclude that the canon of scripture is the rule of faith.
and from there they can accept the authority of scripture and tradition.
Regardless of what you think of such methods of coming to be Christian, it seems clear that going through such a process shouldn't by itself disqualify anyone from endorsing Sola Scriptura.
Regardless of what you think of such methods of coming to be Christian, it seems clear that going through such a process shouldn't by itself disqualify anyone from endorsing Sola Scriptura.
August 3, 2025 at 7:38 PM
and from there they can accept the authority of scripture and tradition.
Regardless of what you think of such methods of coming to be Christian, it seems clear that going through such a process shouldn't by itself disqualify anyone from endorsing Sola Scriptura.
Regardless of what you think of such methods of coming to be Christian, it seems clear that going through such a process shouldn't by itself disqualify anyone from endorsing Sola Scriptura.
There are Christians who become such by, e.g. investigating the historical and archeological record—taking the scriptures at this point with a historical-critical and not a faithful eye—and concluding that Jesus probably did resurrect, and thus the basic claims of Christianity are true.
August 3, 2025 at 7:38 PM
There are Christians who become such by, e.g. investigating the historical and archeological record—taking the scriptures at this point with a historical-critical and not a faithful eye—and concluding that Jesus probably did resurrect, and thus the basic claims of Christianity are true.
This is what "Sola Scriptura" refers to.
In the second, we cannot even begin epistemically with a source of knowledge outside of scripture. But I know of no one who endorses this. Its falsity is evident even without considering tradition. Consider conversion to Christianity.
In the second, we cannot even begin epistemically with a source of knowledge outside of scripture. But I know of no one who endorses this. Its falsity is evident even without considering tradition. Consider conversion to Christianity.
August 3, 2025 at 7:38 PM
This is what "Sola Scriptura" refers to.
In the second, we cannot even begin epistemically with a source of knowledge outside of scripture. But I know of no one who endorses this. Its falsity is evident even without considering tradition. Consider conversion to Christianity.
In the second, we cannot even begin epistemically with a source of knowledge outside of scripture. But I know of no one who endorses this. Its falsity is evident even without considering tradition. Consider conversion to Christianity.
I think this maybe mixes up two senses in which scripture might have greater primacy.
In the first sense, if the claims we derive by scripture conflict with those from tradition, we go with scripture, and we say scripture contains everything needed for salvation, and that tradition is fallible.
In the first sense, if the claims we derive by scripture conflict with those from tradition, we go with scripture, and we say scripture contains everything needed for salvation, and that tradition is fallible.
August 3, 2025 at 7:38 PM
I think this maybe mixes up two senses in which scripture might have greater primacy.
In the first sense, if the claims we derive by scripture conflict with those from tradition, we go with scripture, and we say scripture contains everything needed for salvation, and that tradition is fallible.
In the first sense, if the claims we derive by scripture conflict with those from tradition, we go with scripture, and we say scripture contains everything needed for salvation, and that tradition is fallible.
but again this is an assumption, I'm not aware of the research on that directy
December 11, 2024 at 10:45 PM
but again this is an assumption, I'm not aware of the research on that directy
idk how their need for sleep varies across the lifespan; presumably like most people they need more sleep early in their life and less later. I expect that they need less than other people at similar developmental stages
eg as children needing 7-8 instead of 9-10
eg as children needing 7-8 instead of 9-10
December 11, 2024 at 10:45 PM
idk how their need for sleep varies across the lifespan; presumably like most people they need more sleep early in their life and less later. I expect that they need less than other people at similar developmental stages
eg as children needing 7-8 instead of 9-10
eg as children needing 7-8 instead of 9-10
there are genetic variants known to be associated with less need for sleep; people with them display similar development & functioning to the rest of us with 4-5h/night of sleep
December 11, 2024 at 10:12 PM
there are genetic variants known to be associated with less need for sleep; people with them display similar development & functioning to the rest of us with 4-5h/night of sleep
northern california, i thought (as someone from northern california)
October 27, 2023 at 12:44 AM
northern california, i thought (as someone from northern california)
Christ will come and be our judge and im not a premillenialist. that’s all i have to say on the matter.
October 21, 2023 at 10:14 PM
Christ will come and be our judge and im not a premillenialist. that’s all i have to say on the matter.
in England Lutherans were historically called “reformed” along with Calvinists, the continental meaning of “Reformed”=Calvinist came abt later. “reformed catholic” uses the broader meaning where it just means “protestant”
October 5, 2023 at 7:49 AM
in England Lutherans were historically called “reformed” along with Calvinists, the continental meaning of “Reformed”=Calvinist came abt later. “reformed catholic” uses the broader meaning where it just means “protestant”
it’s just a general high church protestant thing, “reformed catholic” doesn’t necessarily mean calvinist
October 5, 2023 at 7:46 AM
it’s just a general high church protestant thing, “reformed catholic” doesn’t necessarily mean calvinist