The entire interaction between the two of them was truly bizarre

I will never be able to perceive the "we should stop focusing on identity politics" as anything other than "I am tired of constantly having to act like queer people are real people, can't we just sacrifice them to the wolves already?"

Nobody is fooling us when they keep saying "identity politics"

The idea that Democrats weren't tough on crime/immigration is a talking point made up for FOX news. Democrats were already having ICE commit human rights violations, just not in broad daylight like the GOP. We can fight for prosperity/class issues and still protect the environment and LGBT people.

I'm sick of the cynical democrats like Newsom who think if they just throw trans athletes under the bus that it will stop there. The solution isn't to pretend like we were wrong about trans athletes to earn brownie points with the right.

We need to alter our approach away from fact and science based arguments and refocus onto more emotional based approaches, since that is what actually gets people to understand. I'm also fine with temporarily focusing on more viable subjects, but I'm not willing to just give up on this one either

Issue is: I have gone from originally being skeptical about trans inclusion in sports myself (due to being uninformed) to being very sure that the right thing is to include us in the sports corresponding to our gender. I'm not willing to abandon that front, but I do think we need to change something

It's about relatability and sympathy. If people are familiar with trans people and the struggles they face, and if media frames them in a sympathetic light, people will stand up for them. Currently, media is instead doing that for sore losers who competed against trans women. Therein lies the issue

So my point was never that we can "win people over with facts and data", I'm well aware that we can't do that. I'm very much of the opinion that we'll never win over popular support for trans people by proving things with studies, we'll do it with sob story featurettes on the evening news.

and there are so many people in jobs where missing a day of work to attend a protest can easily result in being let go. So many people aren't really in a position where they can afford to test the patience of their employers, since so many Americans are living paycheck to paycheck.

I agree, but I think it is going to be a major hurdle to get turnout on weekdays. Not that we shouldn't try, mind you, but people are pretty thoroughly held hostage to their employers by their dependence on wages to not become immediately homeless. So many people can't afford to miss a paycheck. 1/2

Ok, so let me try to see if i understand the thrust of what you're saying:

You're saying that arguing on an evidential basis that trans athletes should be included in sports is a futile effort because people aren't convinced by evidence and facts, they're convinced by compelling stories, right?

most people have been bombarded with anti-trans messaging framing trans women as cheats and sympathizing with sore losers who got mad about them, so they empathize with them. It's tv drama shit. we can win them over just by giving them the other perspective and showing trans people as real people.

they just know "i saw that story where a trans woman won against women and the people on the news said that's wrong and i think thats wrong."

We don't need to makea better case or giving more evidence, we just need to go up and talk about how its ok and its horrible how shes been treated.

the majority of people don't even think about stuff that deeply, even though that is barely surface level. most people dont know what exactly she placed, or that she used to place lower in 2021 against men or even that she ever competed against men.

We do have evidence to prove she would've done better vs men without the HRT, though. We can demonstrably prove there is a significant drop in muscle mass amongst trans women who have started hrt. We have seen patterns that can be identified of athletic performance dropping post-hrt

How to Look As Weak As Possible 101 - Presented by Chuck Schumer

Some Party "Leadership" he is

You are incoherently rambling right now. Your opinion is indecipherable.