c. jonathan scriven
@cjscriven.bsky.social
Teach politics and I.R. at the Washington Adventist University Honors College (Takoma Park, MD). DC is home. Lived in France for 13 years. Sports, politics, & coffee. What else is there?
Just as a point of reference, this sounds exactly like the MAGA crowd. "If I don't get EVERYTHING that I want, let's primary everyone." That is quite literally Trump has demanded in his party for the last 10 years.
November 11, 2025 at 1:20 PM
Just as a point of reference, this sounds exactly like the MAGA crowd. "If I don't get EVERYTHING that I want, let's primary everyone." That is quite literally Trump has demanded in his party for the last 10 years.
I just think you (and others, not just you) are discounting how much Dems gained in the last 40 days (including, by the way -- historic victories all over the country) and the potential to have a REAL issue to run on next year. This 'all is lost' attitude just reminds me too much of...well...Dems!
November 11, 2025 at 3:40 AM
I just think you (and others, not just you) are discounting how much Dems gained in the last 40 days (including, by the way -- historic victories all over the country) and the potential to have a REAL issue to run on next year. This 'all is lost' attitude just reminds me too much of...well...Dems!
Yes, I understand that. But to what end? How much longer should Dems have held out? 2 weeks? a month? What if GOP didn't give in? Then what? How much immediate pain to average Americans were Dems willing to endure?
November 11, 2025 at 3:38 AM
Yes, I understand that. But to what end? How much longer should Dems have held out? 2 weeks? a month? What if GOP didn't give in? Then what? How much immediate pain to average Americans were Dems willing to endure?
OK... Pretty good.
November 11, 2025 at 2:37 AM
OK... Pretty good.
Serious, non snarky questions : what was the plan to end this if no deal? Wait out GOP for how long? Another week? 2? 4? At what cost? What indication did Dems have that GOP would move off position? At what point is looking at Plan B a good idea?
November 11, 2025 at 2:34 AM
Serious, non snarky questions : what was the plan to end this if no deal? Wait out GOP for how long? Another week? 2? 4? At what cost? What indication did Dems have that GOP would move off position? At what point is looking at Plan B a good idea?
So tell me, how should this go according to you? At what point would GOP give in? 1 more week? 2? After Thanksgiving? At what cost? I love the attempt, but at some point there has to be a Plan B if you can't see how Plan A ends.
November 11, 2025 at 2:21 AM
So tell me, how should this go according to you? At what point would GOP give in? 1 more week? 2? After Thanksgiving? At what cost? I love the attempt, but at some point there has to be a Plan B if you can't see how Plan A ends.
Thanks for enlightening the conversation with depth and analysis. Always makes things better.
November 10, 2025 at 11:16 PM
Thanks for enlightening the conversation with depth and analysis. Always makes things better.
My argument falls apart a bit if there is no vote. I admit that. But let's wait and see on that one.
November 10, 2025 at 11:11 PM
My argument falls apart a bit if there is no vote. I admit that. But let's wait and see on that one.
OK, so what is your strategy? Dems hold out...until when, exactly? My position is that this is Dunkirk, not Appomattox. I get very tired of Dems holding the position that the only victory is 100% victory.
November 10, 2025 at 11:10 PM
OK, so what is your strategy? Dems hold out...until when, exactly? My position is that this is Dunkirk, not Appomattox. I get very tired of Dems holding the position that the only victory is 100% victory.
I'm giving you my arguments. You don't have to agree. Nor do you have to assume that people who don't agree with you are just trolls. There's another site for that...
November 10, 2025 at 11:09 PM
I'm giving you my arguments. You don't have to agree. Nor do you have to assume that people who don't agree with you are just trolls. There's another site for that...
Have you seen the polls on healthcare? 81% now think premiums are too high (including 50% of the MAGA crowd). Finally... people are understanding the tradeoff between tax cuts for the rich and basic healthcare and food assistance. That is a change of narrative Pro something, not just against Trump.
November 10, 2025 at 11:04 PM
Have you seen the polls on healthcare? 81% now think premiums are too high (including 50% of the MAGA crowd). Finally... people are understanding the tradeoff between tax cuts for the rich and basic healthcare and food assistance. That is a change of narrative Pro something, not just against Trump.
...for each of those 40+ days; c) revealed Trump and GOP for exactly what they are -- putting tax breaks above healthcare and food assistance; d) got an vote on healthcare that will either get them what they want (unlikely) or give them a clear issue to run on in '26 (more likely). Just a few...
November 10, 2025 at 11:01 PM
...for each of those 40+ days; c) revealed Trump and GOP for exactly what they are -- putting tax breaks above healthcare and food assistance; d) got an vote on healthcare that will either get them what they want (unlikely) or give them a clear issue to run on in '26 (more likely). Just a few...
Few things: a) showed they will stand up to Trump (40+ days nothing to sneeze at -- most pundits thought it was last less than a week); b) changed narrative on healthcare (latest poll had 81% agreeing that premiums are too high -- including 50% of MAGA supporters!!) by putting it front center...
November 10, 2025 at 11:01 PM
Few things: a) showed they will stand up to Trump (40+ days nothing to sneeze at -- most pundits thought it was last less than a week); b) changed narrative on healthcare (latest poll had 81% agreeing that premiums are too high -- including 50% of MAGA supporters!!) by putting it front center...
Because (as I've said) the 40+ days of shutdown did accomplish things: it a) revealed Trump and the GOP for exactly what they are b) changed the narrative on healthcare, giving Dems a CLEAR issue to run on next year, c) forced a vote on healthcare that could redefine '26, and d) showed Dem unity!
November 10, 2025 at 10:54 PM
Because (as I've said) the 40+ days of shutdown did accomplish things: it a) revealed Trump and the GOP for exactly what they are b) changed the narrative on healthcare, giving Dems a CLEAR issue to run on next year, c) forced a vote on healthcare that could redefine '26, and d) showed Dem unity!
Do you know how you beat Trump? With VOTES! The ultimate (and only) way to fully defeat Trump is to get a majority in the House and Senate. At worst, this shutdown changed the narrative and put health care front and center. Dems finally have a issue to run on that resonates with people. Bring on '26
November 10, 2025 at 10:50 PM
Do you know how you beat Trump? With VOTES! The ultimate (and only) way to fully defeat Trump is to get a majority in the House and Senate. At worst, this shutdown changed the narrative and put health care front and center. Dems finally have a issue to run on that resonates with people. Bring on '26
To TRY IT! That's what you do in politics. They made a point, changed the narrative, but didn't get all of what they want. So regroup, figure out Plan B!
November 10, 2025 at 10:48 PM
To TRY IT! That's what you do in politics. They made a point, changed the narrative, but didn't get all of what they want. So regroup, figure out Plan B!
Tell me: where was the end of this strategy? When was Trump and the GOP going to give in? Next week? Next month? At what cost to Americans? In politics you're toast if you don't have a Plan B. Dems now have one: make this THE issue in 2026 and regain a majority! Sometimes you have to change course.
November 10, 2025 at 9:10 PM
Tell me: where was the end of this strategy? When was Trump and the GOP going to give in? Next week? Next month? At what cost to Americans? In politics you're toast if you don't have a Plan B. Dems now have one: make this THE issue in 2026 and regain a majority! Sometimes you have to change course.
...the same tactics before you regroup and change course? Dems got a lot out of this shutdown. Take some positives and get working on Plan B. Nov 2026 will be here before you know it.
November 10, 2025 at 9:07 PM
...the same tactics before you regroup and change course? Dems got a lot out of this shutdown. Take some positives and get working on Plan B. Nov 2026 will be here before you know it.
After what? Standing up in unity for 40+ days? Completely changing the narrative on healthcare? Convincing even MAGA that premiums are too high (look at recent polling)? Exposing GOP for exactly what they are? Look, it didn't work exactly how they wanted...but how long do you keep trying...
November 10, 2025 at 9:07 PM
After what? Standing up in unity for 40+ days? Completely changing the narrative on healthcare? Convincing even MAGA that premiums are too high (look at recent polling)? Exposing GOP for exactly what they are? Look, it didn't work exactly how they wanted...but how long do you keep trying...
I'm not sure I get this argument. By forcing an ACA vote Dems are ensuring that a) they get what they want, or (if the GOP doesn't go along), b) a CLEAR issue to run on 2026. Finally something to run FOR. I'm so tired of the 'everyone should be against Trump' platform of the last 10 years.
November 10, 2025 at 9:03 PM
I'm not sure I get this argument. By forcing an ACA vote Dems are ensuring that a) they get what they want, or (if the GOP doesn't go along), b) a CLEAR issue to run on 2026. Finally something to run FOR. I'm so tired of the 'everyone should be against Trump' platform of the last 10 years.
VOTERS will care when they go to the polls in 2026. I honestly don't know what makes anyone think Trump or the GOP would have capitulated if Dems held out for another week/month? What this does is guarantee a vote and something CLEAR to run on in '26. This is the path to a majority.
November 10, 2025 at 8:58 PM
VOTERS will care when they go to the polls in 2026. I honestly don't know what makes anyone think Trump or the GOP would have capitulated if Dems held out for another week/month? What this does is guarantee a vote and something CLEAR to run on in '26. This is the path to a majority.
What people are underestimating (in my view) is the value of having an on-the-record vote on ACA (not to mention the fact that the entire narrative of the shutdown has changed in Dems favor). In 2026 there will be receipts. Those receipts could lead to huge wins in House AND Senate.
November 10, 2025 at 6:51 PM
What people are underestimating (in my view) is the value of having an on-the-record vote on ACA (not to mention the fact that the entire narrative of the shutdown has changed in Dems favor). In 2026 there will be receipts. Those receipts could lead to huge wins in House AND Senate.
May analogy (which may not be great, I admit) is this: Think of this as Dunkirk, not Appomattox.
November 10, 2025 at 4:55 PM
May analogy (which may not be great, I admit) is this: Think of this as Dunkirk, not Appomattox.
OK, but at what cost to average Americans? The problem is that many in the GOP just don't care and will let Americans suffer. What makes you think they would ever give in?
November 10, 2025 at 4:20 PM
OK, but at what cost to average Americans? The problem is that many in the GOP just don't care and will let Americans suffer. What makes you think they would ever give in?
And here's key question: how many more days would it take for Dems to get what they want? If you can't answer to that, argument for prolonging is pretty weak (and at what cost to average Americans?)
Think of this as Dunkirk, not Appomattox.
Think of this as Dunkirk, not Appomattox.
November 10, 2025 at 4:14 PM
And here's key question: how many more days would it take for Dems to get what they want? If you can't answer to that, argument for prolonging is pretty weak (and at what cost to average Americans?)
Think of this as Dunkirk, not Appomattox.
Think of this as Dunkirk, not Appomattox.