snowing down there too?
November 10, 2025 at 1:14 PM
snowing down there too?
im glad im coherent enough to have that happen lol
November 9, 2025 at 2:10 AM
im glad im coherent enough to have that happen lol
couldn't _truly_ experience*
November 9, 2025 at 1:06 AM
couldn't _truly_ experience*
People will just handwave this away as me just not really grasping the extent of their oneness, which is fair. I think deconstructing the strong, strict language of homoousious via historical and textual realities led me to this point.
November 8, 2025 at 9:06 PM
People will just handwave this away as me just not really grasping the extent of their oneness, which is fair. I think deconstructing the strong, strict language of homoousious via historical and textual realities led me to this point.
with the Spirit I don't feel this as much, although, in theory the problem is the same. It's either Jesus or the Trinity, so then, where does that leave devotionals to the Father and Spirit? In the wayside, really.
November 8, 2025 at 9:05 PM
with the Spirit I don't feel this as much, although, in theory the problem is the same. It's either Jesus or the Trinity, so then, where does that leave devotionals to the Father and Spirit? In the wayside, really.
I understand the reasoning that the glory of the Trinity is shared between them all, in their divinity. But, I still feel like... how do I put this... centering the Father should feel more important to me? But it doesn't... He feels like an afterthought in a lot of Christian devotion. It's wrong?
November 8, 2025 at 9:04 PM
I understand the reasoning that the glory of the Trinity is shared between them all, in their divinity. But, I still feel like... how do I put this... centering the Father should feel more important to me? But it doesn't... He feels like an afterthought in a lot of Christian devotion. It's wrong?
so, after starting to get in the weeds on Christology, "true God of true God" doesn't register in my mind as confidently anymore. And personally most of my devotion was extremely Christocentric, as I had mentioned earlier.
November 8, 2025 at 9:03 PM
so, after starting to get in the weeds on Christology, "true God of true God" doesn't register in my mind as confidently anymore. And personally most of my devotion was extremely Christocentric, as I had mentioned earlier.
It's interesting, I spent so much time rationalizing why the same glory being applied to Jesus was good and proper, but, I'm starting to hit the snag where, in practice, this ends up focusing everyone's attention to Jesus. I mean, it doesn't help I started to undermine and deconstruct Nicea.
November 8, 2025 at 9:02 PM
It's interesting, I spent so much time rationalizing why the same glory being applied to Jesus was good and proper, but, I'm starting to hit the snag where, in practice, this ends up focusing everyone's attention to Jesus. I mean, it doesn't help I started to undermine and deconstruct Nicea.
Anyway I'm having a second faith crisis borne out of these musings, where I kind of start to feel the idea of centering all my worship on Christ or an abstract "Trinity" is not giving the Father His due glory.
November 8, 2025 at 9:01 PM
Anyway I'm having a second faith crisis borne out of these musings, where I kind of start to feel the idea of centering all my worship on Christ or an abstract "Trinity" is not giving the Father His due glory.
this is a good point! I conceive of religion more as an interior experience and transformation, but the social and community aspect is also very precious, although I see this (when religiously-oriented) moreso downstream of the promise of union with God and with each other (as the Body of Christ)
November 8, 2025 at 8:54 PM
this is a good point! I conceive of religion more as an interior experience and transformation, but the social and community aspect is also very precious, although I see this (when religiously-oriented) moreso downstream of the promise of union with God and with each other (as the Body of Christ)
God without immediately recognizing the power of Jesus, was a commitment I had fully bought in, but it disquieted me more and more over time, because just waving away the genuine spiritual wisdom and insight of other traditions wasn't sustainable
November 8, 2025 at 8:52 PM
God without immediately recognizing the power of Jesus, was a commitment I had fully bought in, but it disquieted me more and more over time, because just waving away the genuine spiritual wisdom and insight of other traditions wasn't sustainable
obviously this line of reasoning has limits because, ancient Israelites weren't talking about crucifixion or whatever, so to an extent the identity of Jesus in theophany and revelation, is necessarily veiled, and depends in time. But in short, after Jesus' birth, that anyone could _truly_ experience
November 8, 2025 at 8:51 PM
obviously this line of reasoning has limits because, ancient Israelites weren't talking about crucifixion or whatever, so to an extent the identity of Jesus in theophany and revelation, is necessarily veiled, and depends in time. But in short, after Jesus' birth, that anyone could _truly_ experience
given that the Incarnation is then somewhat of an atemporal event, to an extent, and presumably the Angel of the Lord, anthropomorphic theophanies, etc..., were all mediated not just by a somewhat subordinate Logos as per Justin Martyr but by the eternally Incarnate Logos, who is fully God
November 8, 2025 at 8:49 PM
given that the Incarnation is then somewhat of an atemporal event, to an extent, and presumably the Angel of the Lord, anthropomorphic theophanies, etc..., were all mediated not just by a somewhat subordinate Logos as per Justin Martyr but by the eternally Incarnate Logos, who is fully God
Although this gets into a discussion of the "Pre-Incarnate Christ" and how this concept makes no sense given any theology after the 300s, since Jesus is considered wholly divine instead of this angelomorphic being who literally descended from on high, so it retroactively applies
November 8, 2025 at 8:47 PM
Although this gets into a discussion of the "Pre-Incarnate Christ" and how this concept makes no sense given any theology after the 300s, since Jesus is considered wholly divine instead of this angelomorphic being who literally descended from on high, so it retroactively applies
i mean, yes as a corollary, but the initial discomfort was at claiming that nobody can have access to God except through Jesus as Jesus, and that all experience of God throughout time that wasn't recognized as Jesus after Jesus was made manifest, are illegitimate.
November 8, 2025 at 8:45 PM
i mean, yes as a corollary, but the initial discomfort was at claiming that nobody can have access to God except through Jesus as Jesus, and that all experience of God throughout time that wasn't recognized as Jesus after Jesus was made manifest, are illegitimate.
im kind of losing the thread cuz Im working on a hard programming problem, ill be back ina. few hours
November 6, 2025 at 8:47 PM
im kind of losing the thread cuz Im working on a hard programming problem, ill be back ina. few hours
But I couldn't shake off that this feels wrong, since so many people experience God without this intermediate apprehension (or at least, recognition of it as "Christ the Logos of God")
November 6, 2025 at 8:46 PM
But I couldn't shake off that this feels wrong, since so many people experience God without this intermediate apprehension (or at least, recognition of it as "Christ the Logos of God")
I actually had a bit of a self-manufactured crisis, because my understanding of Christianity was super Christocentric, where Christ is the only real form of theophany (the Logos as the Image of God, perceived in all Divine presence), but then, this requires 100% commitment and exclusion of all else.
November 6, 2025 at 8:45 PM
I actually had a bit of a self-manufactured crisis, because my understanding of Christianity was super Christocentric, where Christ is the only real form of theophany (the Logos as the Image of God, perceived in all Divine presence), but then, this requires 100% commitment and exclusion of all else.
We can consider guruship to be just one example of the more general need for people to have this "tangible" connection to God, but then in that case, I really would count myself as one such person. I don't understand how deism can bring about anything I hold precious in religion, personally.
November 6, 2025 at 8:44 PM
We can consider guruship to be just one example of the more general need for people to have this "tangible" connection to God, but then in that case, I really would count myself as one such person. I don't understand how deism can bring about anything I hold precious in religion, personally.
I was about to say, I think most people require a theory of divine immanence AND an inner experience that validates it, in order to properly feel reverence and fealty towards a purported divinity. Gurus do provide a very common method towards that, as intermediaries, yeah
November 6, 2025 at 8:41 PM
I was about to say, I think most people require a theory of divine immanence AND an inner experience that validates it, in order to properly feel reverence and fealty towards a purported divinity. Gurus do provide a very common method towards that, as intermediaries, yeah
I just wanna add, be patient with me, I'm a yapper but I'm trying to get better at bringing up stuff to actually respond to people adequately, instead of just saying stuff for its own sake. I apologize if I'm leaning more on the latter.
November 6, 2025 at 7:25 PM
I just wanna add, be patient with me, I'm a yapper but I'm trying to get better at bringing up stuff to actually respond to people adequately, instead of just saying stuff for its own sake. I apologize if I'm leaning more on the latter.
and Nicene Trinitarianism as a project was just a way of figuring out how we can claim the most Divinity possible for Jesus and not have it be polytheism, so, this is saying something
November 6, 2025 at 7:23 PM
and Nicene Trinitarianism as a project was just a way of figuring out how we can claim the most Divinity possible for Jesus and not have it be polytheism, so, this is saying something
I think the average Christian qualifies this language much less than the very Nicene theologians that allowed them to do so, simply because they don't have the metaphysical language ingrained in their piety. Especially in areas with more low-church traditions, it gets really loosey goosey
November 6, 2025 at 7:23 PM
I think the average Christian qualifies this language much less than the very Nicene theologians that allowed them to do so, simply because they don't have the metaphysical language ingrained in their piety. Especially in areas with more low-church traditions, it gets really loosey goosey