So your little ministry devoted to psychologically abusing kids for being queer will soon be defined as protected religious expression! After parents finish burying the kids you and Eve and Nate drive to suicide, they won't even be able to sue you! You must be thrilled!

Even if I can't personally rest my conscience on pursuing one, I don't think I have the standing to make those kinds of sweeping judgments for everyone. But I see in the fruits and actions of those who do a hubristic pride and callous indifference that is *certainly* sinful.

We can keep dismissing criticism from lgbt people as "hate." But publicly insisting that gay people are incapable of having romantic relationships on the same terms as straight people isn't just a "personal belief," and it's selfish to frame it that way.

And there's literally nothing I've done in life that would have been foreclosed by having a husband. My celibacy doesn't seem to be for much of anything except marking me as a broken, lesser version of a straight man.

He acts like celibacy always opens wonderful doors and possibilities for people, when it far more often functions to alienate and isolate me in practice. It's limited even platonic intimacy in my life - made connections fraught to the point that I question whether I'm worthy of love of any kind.

No, the church doesn't teach that "everyone's sexuality is a cross," and a homosexual orientation is clearly singled out as a perversion of an opposite sex orientation. It's not our "fault," but it's bad in se, and it's supposed to make us suffer in ways straight people don't.

Thank you. I'm gay and Catholic myself, and it annoys me how much this guy minimizes what church teaching entails for us. It really seems like he's just trying to put a positive spin on it to make it more palatable for straight Catholics who might otherwise be bothered by what it costs us.

But I'm not disagreeing with your overall point. I think there are a lot of people who don't want to confront that the church really says it's not good to be gay. It's not our "fault" but it's not the way people are supposed to be in Catholic theology.

The Catholic line about it that I've been given in my spiritual direction isn't that it's some special calling to be celibate. It's just the default when you're a man who can't marry a woman for whatever reason (or vice versa). I've been told very specifically that my celibacy is not a vocation.

"Procreative ends" feel like an empty rationalization for all this suffering, and without them, it is just a punishment imposed for *being* lgbt. A penance we must perform to apologize to God for not being cishet. And I see most unaffirming Christians simply refusing to grapple with it.

Yeah, very compassionate. Nice branding.

yourself and defend the church online. If not, you'll just reply with more defensiveness.

I gave you the benefit of the doubt in asking you these questions. I didn't see anything to contradict my initial assessment. That's why I'm not really interested in talking with you anymore. If you care about gay Catholics the way you claim to, this may cause you to reevaluate how you present

I am aware of your ministry in Catholic schools, and I've seen in its documentation the way it minimizes and dismisses the pain a celibacy mandate causes gay kids who are being confronted with it. That's part of how I know you're more concerned with the church's image than gay Catholics' well being.

Sorry I wasted both of our time.

I thought you as a gay catholic might be willing to actually engage with some difficulties I've been having, since my priest won't. But it seems like your overall aim with your ministry is PR for the church, not meaningfully supporting lgbt catholics or answering to the reality of our lives.

why do the vast majority of gay people leave the church and not live celibate lives? Are we especially bad? Inherently morally inferior to straight people who seem to find chastity far less unbearable?

My bigger question for you then, if celibacy is wonderful and full of possibilities and there's no reason to even wonder if imposing suffering, exclusion, restraint, loneliness on people just for *being* gay is justified,