Fabian Kirsch
@fabiankirsch.bsky.social
Looking for practical answers to how we can exit our current global culture of war and dominance, restore trust in humanity and each other and together create a world everyone can live with.
English: I want to talk to people who are intending to vote for the AfD in the upcoming German elections. Please share this with them if you know anyone.
February 5, 2025 at 9:02 AM
English: I want to talk to people who are intending to vote for the AfD in the upcoming German elections. Please share this with them if you know anyone.
2/2 And I imagine to change their agenda we would need to join them enough in their experience (not their actions!), so that they could trust that whatever is suggested/argued for would also meet them.
Does this make sense?
I'm not wanting to imply this is easy in any way, though 😥
Does this make sense?
I'm not wanting to imply this is easy in any way, though 😥
January 19, 2025 at 3:35 PM
2/2 And I imagine to change their agenda we would need to join them enough in their experience (not their actions!), so that they could trust that whatever is suggested/argued for would also meet them.
Does this make sense?
I'm not wanting to imply this is easy in any way, though 😥
Does this make sense?
I'm not wanting to imply this is easy in any way, though 😥
1/2 I think they actually are interested in empirical evidence in particular areas, as long as it serves their agenda. Nazi Germany was very empirical about technological development, and very non-empirical when it came to creating their abhorrent, life negating dominator narrative and agenda.
January 19, 2025 at 3:35 PM
1/2 I think they actually are interested in empirical evidence in particular areas, as long as it serves their agenda. Nazi Germany was very empirical about technological development, and very non-empirical when it came to creating their abhorrent, life negating dominator narrative and agenda.
Interesting direction you are taking there. You mean we wouldn't need democracy in the sense of democracy being"distribution of power to people living in a state" and "in a high trust environment there wouldn't be a need for a state"?
January 19, 2025 at 12:58 PM
Interesting direction you are taking there. You mean we wouldn't need democracy in the sense of democracy being"distribution of power to people living in a state" and "in a high trust environment there wouldn't be a need for a state"?
2/2 As for the historic study: my sense is that the focus has been leaning heavily towards the rational, in contexts of little trust and close to zero emotional vulnerability. I'm very curious how democracy might function in a high trust field where humans (incl men!) show up fully.
January 15, 2025 at 7:55 PM
2/2 As for the historic study: my sense is that the focus has been leaning heavily towards the rational, in contexts of little trust and close to zero emotional vulnerability. I'm very curious how democracy might function in a high trust field where humans (incl men!) show up fully.
1/2 It doesn't seem oligarchic to me, given that the few would only come together for a particular decision and then disband again, no? And I agree that the choosing still remains a tricky part also for temporary setups.
January 15, 2025 at 7:55 PM
1/2 It doesn't seem oligarchic to me, given that the few would only come together for a particular decision and then disband again, no? And I agree that the choosing still remains a tricky part also for temporary setups.
Assuming that baby humans enjoy being with anyone who enjoys being with them, what do you imagine has happened to people so that they start acting, talking and thinking in ways that are dehumanizing and harmful towards others (and in particular marginalized groups)? Honest question, actually curious
January 13, 2025 at 5:47 PM
Assuming that baby humans enjoy being with anyone who enjoys being with them, what do you imagine has happened to people so that they start acting, talking and thinking in ways that are dehumanizing and harmful towards others (and in particular marginalized groups)? Honest question, actually curious
3/3 All that being said, I'm still curious what you think about the _particular combination_ of groups I suggested for a sortition+deliberation process (with the goal of keeping as many people as possible in the stadium 😉), as an _addition_ (not a substitute) to representative majority voting!
January 13, 2025 at 4:02 PM
3/3 All that being said, I'm still curious what you think about the _particular combination_ of groups I suggested for a sortition+deliberation process (with the goal of keeping as many people as possible in the stadium 😉), as an _addition_ (not a substitute) to representative majority voting!
2/3 So static "philosopher kings" wouldn't seem useful here even if they could fully orient to care for the whole. I came across this one a few days ago, which puts "expertise" lovely into perspective: matt.might.net/articles/phd...
The illustrated guide to a Ph.D.
matt.might.net
January 13, 2025 at 4:02 PM
2/3 So static "philosopher kings" wouldn't seem useful here even if they could fully orient to care for the whole. I came across this one a few days ago, which puts "expertise" lovely into perspective: matt.might.net/articles/phd...
1/3 Here only one of those groups would decide. That is very different from what I suggested (a combination of particular groups).
Also, who has subject matter expertise would be different for different topics, both on the theoretical and experiential layer (e.g. child care; sewage water system).
Also, who has subject matter expertise would be different for different topics, both on the theoretical and experiential layer (e.g. child care; sewage water system).
January 13, 2025 at 4:02 PM
1/3 Here only one of those groups would decide. That is very different from what I suggested (a combination of particular groups).
Also, who has subject matter expertise would be different for different topics, both on the theoretical and experiential layer (e.g. child care; sewage water system).
Also, who has subject matter expertise would be different for different topics, both on the theoretical and experiential layer (e.g. child care; sewage water system).
What specifically makes you think that their whole purpose is intolerance?
January 12, 2025 at 9:25 PM
What specifically makes you think that their whole purpose is intolerance?
4/4 And what you say about needing strong drivers also makes sense. Maybe that's a function that could be picked up by those who today work as full-time politicians?
Again, curious what you think!
Again, curious what you think!
January 12, 2025 at 12:36 PM
4/4 And what you say about needing strong drivers also makes sense. Maybe that's a function that could be picked up by those who today work as full-time politicians?
Again, curious what you think!
Again, curious what you think!
3/4 It seems to me that we need more decision making (DM) processes that support shifts/deeper influencing of each other. What I'd advocate for is a diversification of our democratic DM systems, rather than swapping the current representative voting process with a sortition based process.
January 12, 2025 at 12:36 PM
3/4 It seems to me that we need more decision making (DM) processes that support shifts/deeper influencing of each other. What I'd advocate for is a diversification of our democratic DM systems, rather than swapping the current representative voting process with a sortition based process.
2/4
- have relevant subject matter expertise
- have strong (polarized) opinions about the topic
- would be impacted by the outcome
- would be involved in/have the resources need in implementing the outcome
And across those groups as few as possible of those who'd rather be at the stadium!
- have relevant subject matter expertise
- have strong (polarized) opinions about the topic
- would be impacted by the outcome
- would be involved in/have the resources need in implementing the outcome
And across those groups as few as possible of those who'd rather be at the stadium!
January 12, 2025 at 12:36 PM
2/4
- have relevant subject matter expertise
- have strong (polarized) opinions about the topic
- would be impacted by the outcome
- would be involved in/have the resources need in implementing the outcome
And across those groups as few as possible of those who'd rather be at the stadium!
- have relevant subject matter expertise
- have strong (polarized) opinions about the topic
- would be impacted by the outcome
- would be involved in/have the resources need in implementing the outcome
And across those groups as few as possible of those who'd rather be at the stadium!
1/4 When I talked about stratified sampling earlier, I didn't actually necessarily mean samples from all groups across the entire the population, but rather to have a representative sample of those groups who:
January 12, 2025 at 12:36 PM
1/4 When I talked about stratified sampling earlier, I didn't actually necessarily mean samples from all groups across the entire the population, but rather to have a representative sample of those groups who:
It seems there's still a lot to explore with CAs, that hasn't been tried yet.
And ~95% of people voting on tough decisions based on superficial understanding and without the possibility for mutual influencing doesn't seem like a way forward either to me.
Curious to hear what you think!
And ~95% of people voting on tough decisions based on superficial understanding and without the possibility for mutual influencing doesn't seem like a way forward either to me.
Curious to hear what you think!
January 3, 2025 at 8:37 AM
It seems there's still a lot to explore with CAs, that hasn't been tried yet.
And ~95% of people voting on tough decisions based on superficial understanding and without the possibility for mutual influencing doesn't seem like a way forward either to me.
Curious to hear what you think!
And ~95% of people voting on tough decisions based on superficial understanding and without the possibility for mutual influencing doesn't seem like a way forward either to me.
Curious to hear what you think!
And that still doesn't attend to any time constraints on participants' ends, so I would suggest to also offer different types of involvement:
1. collecting input on what's important to people
2. proposal creation
3. proposal evaluation
2 could be skipped by some, 1 could be done from home maybe.
1. collecting input on what's important to people
2. proposal creation
3. proposal evaluation
2 could be skipped by some, 1 could be done from home maybe.
January 3, 2025 at 8:37 AM
And that still doesn't attend to any time constraints on participants' ends, so I would suggest to also offer different types of involvement:
1. collecting input on what's important to people
2. proposal creation
3. proposal evaluation
2 could be skipped by some, 1 could be done from home maybe.
1. collecting input on what's important to people
2. proposal creation
3. proposal evaluation
2 could be skipped by some, 1 could be done from home maybe.
If "postal civic lottery" translates to "we sent people a letter and they might respond or not to that, but that's it" I'm with you that this heavily skews who would participate. @esgehtlos.bsky.social is working on a more proactive "recruitment" method: Outreach Random Selection Method
Outreach Random Selection Method
hallobundestag.de
January 3, 2025 at 8:37 AM
If "postal civic lottery" translates to "we sent people a letter and they might respond or not to that, but that's it" I'm with you that this heavily skews who would participate. @esgehtlos.bsky.social is working on a more proactive "recruitment" method: Outreach Random Selection Method
How was the sortition implemented in the processes you mention? If through self-selection only: I'd expect a bias towards people ready to give priority to and enjoy such processes, particularly without guaranteed impact on legislation. What about stratified sampling + knocking on people's doors?
December 30, 2024 at 10:47 PM
How was the sortition implemented in the processes you mention? If through self-selection only: I'd expect a bias towards people ready to give priority to and enjoy such processes, particularly without guaranteed impact on legislation. What about stratified sampling + knocking on people's doors?
What do you think of dropping voting all together and shift to a sortition based system instead to gather a representative sample of the population e.g. for a citizen assembly (deliberate democracy)?
December 30, 2024 at 8:22 AM
What do you think of dropping voting all together and shift to a sortition based system instead to gather a representative sample of the population e.g. for a citizen assembly (deliberate democracy)?